Health care reform:

[XOXO]

The dems just shoved this down our throats.

Nice.

[soxfan22]

Today, Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI) released a letter from the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) confirming that the failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail. The JCT letter makes clear that Americans who do not maintain “acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.

In response to the JCT letter, Camp said: “This is the ultimate example of the Democrats’ command-and-control style of governing – buy what we tell you or go to jail. It is outrageous and it should be stopped immediately.”

Key excerpts from the JCT letter appear below:

“H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax.” [page 1]

- - - - - - - - - -

“If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply…” [page 2]

- - - - - - - - - -


“Criminal penalties

Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

• Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

• Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]

There will be a revolt. And I am all for it.

[Berlingirl]

Yes...just loved what the government has done reforming Wall Street, it's worked so well and they've never made so much money! I'm sure we're in for a real roller coaster ride. Hmm...I've gone from low confidence to no confidence.

[XOXO]

Buy a $15,000 policy or go to jail. $15,000 policy? I wonder if the people who think this is going to be a handout are paying attention. Are they prepared to pay for health insurance they don't want?

I can't believe what I just witnessed. Surely the senate will not pass this stupid legislation. It appears that the democrats who actually had town hall meetings did not listen.

I think this is just dirty:

MoveOn has reportedly raised more than $3.5 million in contributions to fund primary challenges against "any Democratic senator who blocks an up-or-down vote on health care reform with a public option," according to an e-mail sent to group members on Thursday.

The e-mail warned that any Democratic House member who joins Republicans to filibuster the health care reform measure will "face an enormous backlash from the grassroots."

Sox: what do you bet that the changes made to the bill about abortion and illegal immigrants gets nixed from the bill.

GG

[Anthony]

Okay XOXO I will bite on this one - if the house passed it, and the GP as polled is in favor of it (and the public is in favor of reform in polling by a solid margin - many polls point this out) - then how exactly is it forced down our throats? I am sure it isn't perfect and it will be changed/tweaked etc. for years and years - but isn't it in the long run a step in the right direction?

[XOXO]

Okay XOXO I will bite on this one - if the house passed it, and the GP as polled is in favor of it (and the public is in favor of reform in polling by a solid margin - many polls point this out) - then how exactly is it forced down our throats? I am sure it isn't perfect and it will be changed/tweaked etc. for years and years - but isn't it in the long run a step in the right direction?

Anthony?? It that really you??

I am going to go for a quick walk. I haven't seen any polls showing this. Do you have a link??

This is from the Washington Examiner:

The results: 26 percent want the bills passed with relatively minor changes; 33 percent want the bills passed but only with major changes; 24 percent want Congress to start work on entirely new bills; and 15 percent want Congress to stop work altogether. Just one percent have no opinion.
That means 72 percent of those surveyed either want Congress to make major changes, start over, or stop work on health care reform, versus 26 percent who want the bills passed with minor changes.

There is something I like:

Insurance industry practices such as denying coverage on the basis of pre-existing medical conditions would be banned, and insurers would no longer be able to charge higher premiums on the basis of gender or medical history. In a further slap, the industry would lose its exemption from federal antitrust restrictions on price fixing and market allocation.

We don't have the money to do this. We cannot take the money from medicare. An extra tax of 5.4% when we are being taxed to death already.

Any Congressperson that votes for this better realize they will have a busy year ahead in 2010. They will be running for re-election, which takes alot of time. Plus, they had better fix the economy and actually create some jobs, because THEY Themselves will NEED one, come November.

GG

[Anthony]

Anthony?? It that really you??

Maybe not - I think that was before my coffee

Here was one poll:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/21/healt ... 1poll.html

Tax increases would be on earners of 500k or more, families earning 1 million or more... those numbers may be off though. I just read this but I can't find it again. One story says tax starts at 350k.

I am just trying to say that there is a process here, and it was followed, and a bill was passed. Whatever side you are on, it happens all the time. Yes - this is a major one - but I don't think it is the end of the union.

[soxfan22]

but isn't it in the long run a step in the right direction?

No. This nation was founded on liberty and freedom of choice.

There is no freedom here, and within a few years, after the government has undercut the insurance companies, there will be no more choice.

And alas, we will be Europe. I have not one ounce interest in becoming Europe.

As for the 5.4% tax on those making more than $500k? Yeah, those would be the job creators...The small business owners.

How, I wonder, did we ever survive, thrive, and become the greatest nation in the history of the world without Nancy Pelosi, Barack Obama, and Marxism?

And how, I wonder, is it constitutional to MANDATE that every individual carry health insurance, whether they can afford it or not?

If this is a "step in the right direction" Anthony, please explain to me...how?

"I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison

That is your "step in the right direction".

Straight out of the pages of "Capital".

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[Anthony]

And how, I wonder, is it constitutional to MANDATE that every individual carry health insurance, whether they can afford it or not?

Well I thought from reading the bill that the mandate is for those that can afford it, and there will be subsidies for those that can't.

Anyway I hear you. My sympathies though lie with the un/under insured I guess, and with all the sick people I know with insurance who get run around from their insurance companies to get the coverage they need (or run out of benefits when they get really sick!). Hey, I choose to live in Italy - and frankly, even with the shortcomings in this system, I think it is great. I have a very hard time explaining to most friends and family members that I don't have to worry about my health insurance anymore. Even when we had it in the states, it was expensive, and it was a hassle. I lived in Hudson Co. NJ for years and I had to go to a doctor in the projects of Jersey City based soley on my zip code.

I guess what I am saying is that I think the system is broken. I am sure plenty of people don't agree with that. Cheers!

Plus it is a bye week for the Jets (!) so I have some time for conversation today

[soxfan22]

Well I thought from reading the bill that the mandate is for those that can afford it, and there will be subsidies for those that can't.

But then, who is to say who can afford to buy health insurance? Will it be based on some percentage above or below poverty level? Then you have some government beurocracy deciding what you choose to spend your income on. Many people simply don't want to carry health insurance, because they'd rather spend their money on a trip to say, St. John.

If we go down the road of the government dictating to us what we can afford, and what we cannot, don't you think all liberty at that point is lost?

To me, it is unimaginable that we now have a government (see: Democrats) who think it is allowable to mandate that every man, woman, and child purchase health care - or risk an exorbitant fine and/or jail time.

What are we doing here?

Surely there are problems with the system. But there are alternatives to fixing those issue.

Like Ronald Reagan said, "Government doesn't fix problems, it is the problem".

[XOXO]

Anthony, that article was written before the town hall meetings. I don't know of any current polls that show America is behind this legislation. If it is out there I am not aware of it. I think it is being shoved down our throats because we have gone to the town meetings and said that we don't want what they are proposing. If there is a current poll saying that America is behind this legislation I will change my view and say that I don't like it but it isn't being shoved down our throats.

Anyway I hear you. My sympathies though lie with the un/under insured I guess, and with all the sick people I know with insurance who get run around from their insurance companies to get the coverage they need (or run out of benefits when they get really sick!). Hey, I choose to live in Italy - and frankly, even with the shortcomings in this system, I think it is great. I have a very hard time explaining to most friends and family members that I don't have to worry about my health insurance anymore. Even when we had it in the states, it was expensive, and it was a hassle. I lived in Hudson Co. NJ for years and I had to go to a doctor in the projects of Jersey City based soley on my zip code.

Anthony, I agree and do not want people uninsured. I would like a step in the right direction but I think the house took a leap last night. I agree that the system is broken. And I am glad that you like Italy. Are people really thinner there?? Remember the junk food tax?? I am still in favor of that. It makes sense to me.


SJfromNJ: I hope you are right.

Not only is the Bill unconstitutional, it will never get through the Senate as it is written

Adding a 5.4 tax for health care when there is 10.2% unemployment isn't going to help the economy. Business' are starting to have profits again but they still aren't hiring. Johnson and Johnson is profitable and they are going to lay people off. I am afraid that unemployment is not only not going to get better soon but it is going to get worse.

Sox:

As for the 5.4% tax on those making more than $500k? Yeah, those would be the job creators...The small business owners.

You are right and I fall into that category. We are not hiring right now and we are hoping the next 3 years don't hurt us too bad. We are trimming the fat and running as lean as we can. We pay our employees very well because we want to attract and retain the best. Adding more taxes is not going to encourage us to hire.

GG

[Anthony]

I will look for more updated polls -

Here are some key provisions from the bill:

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/11/07 ... 0605.shtml

Creates a public health insurance option and a national exchange for the uninsured and small businesses to purchase health insurance. The Secretary of Health and Human Services would negotiate rates with doctors and hospitals on reimbursement rates.

The bill includes mandates for individuals to purchase and businesses to provide health insurance or pay a fine. Individual penalty is 2.5 percent of gross income unless they get a waiver. Businesses that don't offer insurance pay a fine equal to 8 percent of their payroll. Businesses with a payroll of less than $500,000 are exempt from the mandate.

Insurance companies are prohibited from denying coverage based on a pre-existing condition. There are caps on deductibles and annual out of pocket spending is capped at $5000.

Eliminates the Medicare doughnut hole over ten years.

Allows individuals up to 27-years-old to stay on their parent’s health insurance

Expands Medicaid from 100 percent to 150 percent of the Federal Poverty Level.

Provides tax subsidies for individuals between 150 and 400 percent (sliding scale) of the Federal Poverty Level. There are also tax subsidies for small businesses.

As amended, it prohibits federal funds from covering abortions. Women would need to purchase riders to insurance purchased on the exchange if they wanted that coverage.

The bill taxes individuals making more than $500,000 and $1 million for couples. It is a 5.4 percent tax.

Reduces overpayments to doctors who treat Medicare Advantage patients. It is estimated they are paid 14 percent more than doctors who treat Medicare patients.

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Me again - I totally agree - there are a lot of problems with the bill as is. I certainly don't expect the same version to pass the senate and become law. That being said, I think the senate will pass something, and that this is the beginning of a long process of more universal coverage for Americans.

[soxfan22]

Johnson and Johnson is profitable and they are going to lay people off. GG

Ouch. You hit me right where it hurts, GG. We should know our fate by Thanksgiving.

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