usvi-on-line
Informal poll... Obama or McCain?
I don't think you should close this thread or make it read only. These topics we are debating are importnant topics and people should be talking about them.
If we only have the media to teach us about this campaign then we are idiots.
A lot of the people on the forum are smart, smart, smart and I am not one of them so I like to get everyone's view. And I'm pretty good at checking on facts and detecting BS.
So let's talk. NO attacking each other. NO hittting below the belt. NO being petty.
Lex talks about our opinions of each other changing based on our differing views.
That's like my highly homophobic neighbor who loved the Ellen show until Ellen "came out". The neighbor then refused to watch the show and instead talked about how much she hates "the gays". Apparently being gay means you are no longer funny and in fact you are instead evil.
There are some people who have changed my opinion of them on this forum but it's not because they are Republican or liberal or prochoice or have shaved balls. I've changed my opinion of the ones who are mean, immature and petty.
If we only have the media to teach us about this campaign then we are idiots.
A lot of the people on the forum are smart, smart, smart and I am not one of them so I like to get everyone's view. And I'm pretty good at checking on facts and detecting BS.
So let's talk. NO attacking each other. NO hittting below the belt. NO being petty.
Lex talks about our opinions of each other changing based on our differing views.
That's like my highly homophobic neighbor who loved the Ellen show until Ellen "came out". The neighbor then refused to watch the show and instead talked about how much she hates "the gays". Apparently being gay means you are no longer funny and in fact you are instead evil.
There are some people who have changed my opinion of them on this forum but it's not because they are Republican or liberal or prochoice or have shaved balls. I've changed my opinion of the ones who are mean, immature and petty.
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aroobagirl
- Posts: 316
- Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:58 pm
- Location: Fairfax, VA
Wow. That is deep, well thought out and helpful commentary.soxfan22 wrote:Who are you, Oprah?flip-flop wrote: My only hope was to give a voice to the real people who are faced with the decision.
I suppose when you are unable to express yourself with facts, personal experience or logic, you move on to the personal, illogical, and completely unrelated.
I agree, Lysa. One issue I have, is it seems people are ready to make their decision based on one issue (abortion). In other words, because Obama supports abortion in all its forms (including late term and infanticide), many of the people I have been debating with will vote for him.
Why don't we change the subject to something a bit more important to the future of our country?
Like taxes? Or, national defense (although, I should probably pull the plug on supporting our military, as I've been informed that I cannot support a war and at the same time be anti-abortion
).
I don't know, maybe discuss how Obama supports unilaterally going into Pakistan without their gvt's permission to chase down Bin Laden, etc...I thought you folks were against things like that? And I'm the hypocrite?
Maybe we should discuss how Obama still can't say the surge has worked? And that he has said that on day 1 he will begin withdrawal, not matter the facts on the ground? BTW, he can't say it worked because it was McCain's brainchild.
It is McCain who said he'd rather lose an election than lose a war...I fear Obama thinks the opposite...He will do whatever is necessary to get elected - which is an easy thing to do when you have no bedrock principles.
Why don't we change the subject to something a bit more important to the future of our country?
Like taxes? Or, national defense (although, I should probably pull the plug on supporting our military, as I've been informed that I cannot support a war and at the same time be anti-abortion
).I don't know, maybe discuss how Obama supports unilaterally going into Pakistan without their gvt's permission to chase down Bin Laden, etc...I thought you folks were against things like that? And I'm the hypocrite?
Maybe we should discuss how Obama still can't say the surge has worked? And that he has said that on day 1 he will begin withdrawal, not matter the facts on the ground? BTW, he can't say it worked because it was McCain's brainchild.
It is McCain who said he'd rather lose an election than lose a war...I fear Obama thinks the opposite...He will do whatever is necessary to get elected - which is an easy thing to do when you have no bedrock principles.
July 2003 - Honeymoon at The Westin
July 2004 - Glenmar, Gifft Hill
July 2005 - Arco Iris, Fish Bay
December 2007 - Dreamcatcher, GCB
July 2008 - Ellison Villa, VGE
July 2004 - Glenmar, Gifft Hill
July 2005 - Arco Iris, Fish Bay
December 2007 - Dreamcatcher, GCB
July 2008 - Ellison Villa, VGE
I favor leaving it open. I'm finding it quite revealing. It's interesting to see how different posters operate when the issue is more raw, fundamental and primal than which beach they think is best (or even wether or not to bring food, which can get tense). It's a way to get to know people better and some people certainly do seem different to me than they did previously.
I've also sometimes thought that's it's a good idea to keep one thread on a forum where people can go to insult and demean and belittle other people. Keep all that stuff contained, sort of the forum cesspool. Keep it all in there hoping to keep it from contaminating the rest of the forum. Everyone soon learns what it is and can either go there or avoid it.
This might be a good time to share this link again:
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/index.htm
It identifies various internet personality disorders. Several of them are prominent in this thread.
I've also sometimes thought that's it's a good idea to keep one thread on a forum where people can go to insult and demean and belittle other people. Keep all that stuff contained, sort of the forum cesspool. Keep it all in there hoping to keep it from contaminating the rest of the forum. Everyone soon learns what it is and can either go there or avoid it.
This might be a good time to share this link again:
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/index.htm
It identifies various internet personality disorders. Several of them are prominent in this thread.
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Xislandgirl
- Posts: 4163
- Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:03 pm
- Location: Slightly left of center
soxfan22 wrote:Who are you, Oprah?flip-flop wrote: My only hope was to give a voice to the real people who are faced with the decision.
I thought this thread should remain open, but this comment has just sent me over the edge. Please close this thread Anthony, it is just nasty and mean at this point.
I think that some people here need to step off their soapbox and get back to the beach.
Everyone has their own opinion and to think that their opinion is the only one that matters just shows ignorance. In my opinion
My most sincere apologies, flip. Seriously.flip-flop wrote:Wow. That is deep, well thought out and helpful commentary.soxfan22 wrote:Who are you, Oprah?flip-flop wrote: My only hope was to give a voice to the real people who are faced with the decision.
I suppose when you are unable to express yourself with facts, personal experience or logic, you move on to the personal, illogical, and completely unrelated.
I was trying to inject a little humor. And I do not begrudge you your thoughts/opinions. I just really disagree with them.
I also don't know why everything has to be so black and white. Why can't I say the abortion in the cases of rape/incest might be acceptable - but when used as birth control (which is how it is used in most cases), it is an abhorrent practice? You were the one I believe who said not everything can be black and white...
Again - I am truly sorry if the Oprah comment offended you.
July 2003 - Honeymoon at The Westin
July 2004 - Glenmar, Gifft Hill
July 2005 - Arco Iris, Fish Bay
December 2007 - Dreamcatcher, GCB
July 2008 - Ellison Villa, VGE
July 2004 - Glenmar, Gifft Hill
July 2005 - Arco Iris, Fish Bay
December 2007 - Dreamcatcher, GCB
July 2008 - Ellison Villa, VGE
DCphoto
Flip Flop, you are very brave to talk about what happened to you. My sister, who was very sick with an undiagnosed illness became pregnant. She was on all kinds of narcotics and medicine at the time. There was no way she could of carried the baby and survived. It was a heart wrenching for her, but a choice that she and her husband and doctors made. She passed away a year later. In a perfect world, my sister could have had the baby, lived a long wonderful life, but sadly we do not live in a perfect world and never will. That is the reason we need to leave Roe vs. wade alone, because there will never be a clear cut view on this issue. No one will ever be right or wrong on this subject. Sometimes it is just not about a 16 year old getting pregnant or about how religious you are. Vote how ever you want. I don't think this issue will ever go away and it will not change in this administration or next. Doctors will always protect thier patients even if it becomes illigal or not.
Apology accepted. Though I am not offended by being likened to Oprah. She's a bit touchy feely for me, but well spoken and certainly very influential.
I just would like the government out of my bedroom and my doctor's office. That's all. My husband and my doctor were there holding my hand, not my congressional representative.
I just would like the government out of my bedroom and my doctor's office. That's all. My husband and my doctor were there holding my hand, not my congressional representative.
The last thing I will say about abortion:
This is my opinion:
Abortion is bad. Most who support abortion want to preserve a woman's right to a better situation than the one they have put themselves in.
Raising issues like incest/rape/disease only "dumb down" the larger issue of a woman's right to get out of a less than optimal situation.
This however, is fact:
The great, great majority of abortions are as a result of birth control.
This is also fact:
No matter how long you talk about rape/incest/disease as reasons to support abortion, it doesn't change the fact that the majority happen due to birth control...
Here are stats from 2000 on abortion:
In 2000, cases of rape or incest accounted for 1% of abortions.[8] Another study, in 1998, revealed that women reported the following reasons for choosing an abortion:[9]
25.5% Want to postpone childbearing
21.3% Cannot afford a baby
14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy
12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy
10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job
7.9% Want no (more) children
3.3% Risk to fetal health
2.8% Risk to maternal health
2.1% Other
Facts are stubborn things.
This is my opinion:
Abortion is bad. Most who support abortion want to preserve a woman's right to a better situation than the one they have put themselves in.
Raising issues like incest/rape/disease only "dumb down" the larger issue of a woman's right to get out of a less than optimal situation.
This however, is fact:
The great, great majority of abortions are as a result of birth control.
This is also fact:
No matter how long you talk about rape/incest/disease as reasons to support abortion, it doesn't change the fact that the majority happen due to birth control...
Here are stats from 2000 on abortion:
In 2000, cases of rape or incest accounted for 1% of abortions.[8] Another study, in 1998, revealed that women reported the following reasons for choosing an abortion:[9]
25.5% Want to postpone childbearing
21.3% Cannot afford a baby
14.1% Has relationship problem or partner does not want pregnancy
12.2% Too young; parent(s) or other(s) object to pregnancy
10.8% Having a child will disrupt education or job
7.9% Want no (more) children
3.3% Risk to fetal health
2.8% Risk to maternal health
2.1% Other
Facts are stubborn things.
July 2003 - Honeymoon at The Westin
July 2004 - Glenmar, Gifft Hill
July 2005 - Arco Iris, Fish Bay
December 2007 - Dreamcatcher, GCB
July 2008 - Ellison Villa, VGE
July 2004 - Glenmar, Gifft Hill
July 2005 - Arco Iris, Fish Bay
December 2007 - Dreamcatcher, GCB
July 2008 - Ellison Villa, VGE
To all of my forum family and friends...
I am truly one of those people who likes to hear and read what other people have to say on various issues. I respect differences of opinion. It helps me to shape my perspective of the world and those around me.
Most importantly I believe that true and substantive discussion leads to (or should lead to) a middle ground that advances the interest of everyone and cultivates tolerance and understanding.
I am in a fellowship program at UVA right now that fosters this kind of substantive discussion and seeks to have us set aside our party identities and to focus on the issues so that we can create and shape sound policies that benefit as many as possible.
A couple of months ago we all sat down with retiring Sen. John Warner in the Senate Armed Services committee room on Capitol Hill. Regardless of party you cannot help but be in awe of such a man.
One of the things that he expressed to us is his desire that we set aside partisanship, party labels, setreotypes as we move forward in public life.
He said, "There's always going to be that 10% of things that we don't agree on: Capital punishment, abortion and war. But if you focus on the other 90% you can actually get things accomplished."
The purpose of this poll was to get a sense of how folks on this board might vote on November 4.
I truly respect that we all come from different socio-economic and educational backgrounds. As such you bring different perspectives. Isn't it interesting that even though there is a disparity in our political beliefs that we all have STJ in common?
One of the things that struck me on my first visit to the VI in 1995 was that when I walked into a bar and sat down I could see construction workers and lawyers sitting down together and having a drink. It was the first place I'd visited in a long time and met new people and no one asked me where I worked, and who I knew before they decided to continue a conversation with me. It was a revelation.
Your choice of who will be the future leader of this country will have far reaching impacts throughout this country and around the world for years to come.
As long as your choice is made based upon facts, not conjecture and rumor; and as long as it is made in good conscience following your own moral compass you will have fulfilled your rights and responsibilities as a citizen of this country.
You can't compromise if you can't discuss and you can't find solutions if you don't compromise.
I am eager for us as a country and as a forum to focus on that 90%.
Apologies to all for this thread getting out of hand.
Peace.
I am truly one of those people who likes to hear and read what other people have to say on various issues. I respect differences of opinion. It helps me to shape my perspective of the world and those around me.
Most importantly I believe that true and substantive discussion leads to (or should lead to) a middle ground that advances the interest of everyone and cultivates tolerance and understanding.
I am in a fellowship program at UVA right now that fosters this kind of substantive discussion and seeks to have us set aside our party identities and to focus on the issues so that we can create and shape sound policies that benefit as many as possible.
A couple of months ago we all sat down with retiring Sen. John Warner in the Senate Armed Services committee room on Capitol Hill. Regardless of party you cannot help but be in awe of such a man.
One of the things that he expressed to us is his desire that we set aside partisanship, party labels, setreotypes as we move forward in public life.
He said, "There's always going to be that 10% of things that we don't agree on: Capital punishment, abortion and war. But if you focus on the other 90% you can actually get things accomplished."
The purpose of this poll was to get a sense of how folks on this board might vote on November 4.
I truly respect that we all come from different socio-economic and educational backgrounds. As such you bring different perspectives. Isn't it interesting that even though there is a disparity in our political beliefs that we all have STJ in common?
One of the things that struck me on my first visit to the VI in 1995 was that when I walked into a bar and sat down I could see construction workers and lawyers sitting down together and having a drink. It was the first place I'd visited in a long time and met new people and no one asked me where I worked, and who I knew before they decided to continue a conversation with me. It was a revelation.
Your choice of who will be the future leader of this country will have far reaching impacts throughout this country and around the world for years to come.
As long as your choice is made based upon facts, not conjecture and rumor; and as long as it is made in good conscience following your own moral compass you will have fulfilled your rights and responsibilities as a citizen of this country.
You can't compromise if you can't discuss and you can't find solutions if you don't compromise.
I am eager for us as a country and as a forum to focus on that 90%.
Apologies to all for this thread getting out of hand.
Peace.
*Another fine scatterbrained production
Lex- I apologize if I seemed to have pointed you out in my earlier post. It was not my intention to be specific to you.
We are totally on the same page re: the yuck factor of some of the " adults" on this thread.
New thread titles:
1. The "I'm Right & You Stink" forum
2. "La-La-La I'm Not Listening To Anything You Have To Say Online"
3. The "Shock Factor" message board
4. Sound Bites 'R Us.com
We are totally on the same page re: the yuck factor of some of the " adults" on this thread.
New thread titles:
1. The "I'm Right & You Stink" forum
2. "La-La-La I'm Not Listening To Anything You Have To Say Online"
3. The "Shock Factor" message board
4. Sound Bites 'R Us.com