usvi-on-line
breakin vir grande villa
I agree that crime is a risk any where you go, but it's the [apparent] attitude of acceptance of crime on STJ and the resulting lack of consequences/punishment that REALLY causes me consternation.
When the targets of crime are tourists and they're leaving in a week, crimes without consequences become "victimless" such that nobody knows you did it, you'll never get punished and you won't see the person again.
If nobody is ever pursued/caught/punished for a crime (and the news reports certainly make it seem like that rarely happens), then there is no deterrent to crime. In fact, crime could be seen by some as a viable supplement to income/wealth - another job so to speak.
Easy work, great bonuses, be your own boss, high return on investment, no consequences. Sounds like a pretty good gig.
When the targets of crime are tourists and they're leaving in a week, crimes without consequences become "victimless" such that nobody knows you did it, you'll never get punished and you won't see the person again.
If nobody is ever pursued/caught/punished for a crime (and the news reports certainly make it seem like that rarely happens), then there is no deterrent to crime. In fact, crime could be seen by some as a viable supplement to income/wealth - another job so to speak.
Easy work, great bonuses, be your own boss, high return on investment, no consequences. Sounds like a pretty good gig.
Jennifer
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Captain John
- Posts: 275
- Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 2:43 pm
- Location: St John
Teresa_Rae wrote:I’m kind of a numbers nerd, so if you compare STJ and STT to Nashville, these are the per capita (per 100,000 people) crime rates…this is 2004 USVI data vs. 2006 Nashville data, as that is what was readily available:
Murder: STJ/STT – 18 (it was 25 in 2003!), Nashville – 14
Rape: STJ/STT – 67, Nashville – 57
Robbery: STJ/STT – 236, Nashville – 432
Burglary: STJ/STT – 1602, Nashville – 1135
So STJ/STT is worse for murder, rape, and burglary, and Nashville is worse for robbery. But Nashville has more than 10 times as many people as STJ and STT, so you’d think the numbers for the latter should look a lot better.
I guess the point is that STJ and STT have a disproportionate amount of crime for the population there. So when I go to STJ, I don’t think “hey, this is a really safe place like every other town of 4000 people”…instead I think “this is a place where I have to be weary of crime as if I was visiting a big city.”
I used to have a false sense of security when I was on STJ because I thought of it as a typical town of 4000 people...however when I looked into crime rates, I changed my mentality. Now when I'm visiting STJ I just keep my guard up like I would in a big city and hope that nothing will ever happen.
I'd be interested in seeing the this report just using St. John statistics.
Capt. John
Thank you Theresa_Rae and Liamsaunt for trying to quantify and objectify the discussion. Even in a discussion like this, some posters find no problem with saying "actually St. John has very little crime" (same topic, different board) with no corroboration whatsoever. Paradise goggles (I love that expression, LysaC) much?
Considering that Bermuda is more than 10 times larger than STJ, those numbers look dramatically lower on a per capita basis when compared to the Tradewinds numbers.
I wonder how other islands compare?
Considering that Bermuda is more than 10 times larger than STJ, those numbers look dramatically lower on a per capita basis when compared to the Tradewinds numbers.
I wonder how other islands compare?
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designbyroe
- Posts: 1348
- Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 1:27 pm
- Location: Chilaxin on White Bay at least in my mind
flip-flop wrote:I don't think you can fairly assess the crime rate on STJ when it is lumped in with STT. If you pulled just the numbers for STJ you'd see a very different comparison.
How many murders have there been this year on St. John? Last year?
I can think of 2 since the island has been on my radar for the last 10 years or so. Neither was a tourist in the conventional sense. (No I am not saying a tourist life is more valuable, just that if you are assessing your risk as a tourist you should compare apples to apples).
The villa invasion increase is scary and definitely something to think about when making decisions about where to stay. But I just don't think you can compare crime on STJ to crime in any big city, domestic or otherwise.
Flipflop,
Tradewinds records ALL the crime JUST in STJ..
It comes from the police log......I do know that for a fact....directly from the police log
There's no $ sign on a peace of mind, this I've come to know
Just happened to be reading the Tradewinds and I did see the crime count for 2007 and 2008.
Looks like there were 288 Crimes (all kinds) and 5 have been solved. The rest are under investigation.
Here's a rundown:
St. John Tradewinds
Keeping Track
2007
Final Count
Homicide: 3
Solved: 0
Shootings: 2
Under Investigation: 1
Solved: 1
Stabbings: 0
Under Investigation: 0
Solved: 0
Armed Robberies: 1
Under Investigation: 1
Solved: 0
Arsons: 0
Under Investigation: 0
Solved: 0
1st Degree Burglaries: 1
Under Investigation: 1
Solved: 0
2nd Degree Burglaries: 13
Under Investigation: 13
Solved: 0
3rd Degree Burglaries: 71
Under Investigation: 72
Solved: 1
Grand Larcenies: 89
Under Investigation: 89
Solved: 0
Rapes: 4
Under Investigation: 2
Solved: 2
2008To-Date
Homicide: 0
Solved: 0
Shootings: 0
Under Investigation: 0
Solved: 0
Stabbings: 1
Under Investigation: 1
Solved: 0
Armed Robberies: 2
Under Investigation: 2
Solved: 1
Arsons: 0
Under Investigation: 0
Solved: 0
1st Degree Burglaries: 1
Under Investigation: 1
Solved: 0
2nd Degree Burglaries: 8
Under Investigation: 8
Solved: 0
3rd Degree Burglaries: 50
Under Investigation: 50
Solved: 0
Grand Larcenies: 42
Under Investigation: 42
Solved: 0
Rapes: 0
Under Investigation: 0
Solved: 0
Looks like there were 288 Crimes (all kinds) and 5 have been solved. The rest are under investigation.
Here's a rundown:
St. John Tradewinds
Keeping Track
2007
Final Count
Homicide: 3
Solved: 0
Shootings: 2
Under Investigation: 1
Solved: 1
Stabbings: 0
Under Investigation: 0
Solved: 0
Armed Robberies: 1
Under Investigation: 1
Solved: 0
Arsons: 0
Under Investigation: 0
Solved: 0
1st Degree Burglaries: 1
Under Investigation: 1
Solved: 0
2nd Degree Burglaries: 13
Under Investigation: 13
Solved: 0
3rd Degree Burglaries: 71
Under Investigation: 72
Solved: 1
Grand Larcenies: 89
Under Investigation: 89
Solved: 0
Rapes: 4
Under Investigation: 2
Solved: 2
2008To-Date
Homicide: 0
Solved: 0
Shootings: 0
Under Investigation: 0
Solved: 0
Stabbings: 1
Under Investigation: 1
Solved: 0
Armed Robberies: 2
Under Investigation: 2
Solved: 1
Arsons: 0
Under Investigation: 0
Solved: 0
1st Degree Burglaries: 1
Under Investigation: 1
Solved: 0
2nd Degree Burglaries: 8
Under Investigation: 8
Solved: 0
3rd Degree Burglaries: 50
Under Investigation: 50
Solved: 0
Grand Larcenies: 42
Under Investigation: 42
Solved: 0
Rapes: 0
Under Investigation: 0
Solved: 0
"Paradise...it's a state of mine"
OK, that's truly the Keystone Cops, isn't it? They don't EVER solve crimes? Oh, wait, they solved three or four out of 288...
Someone mentioned private security as a solution, but I have seen "rent-a-cops" around here, and they generally tend to be even more inept than the local police force, and in this situation that could be very bad.
Someone mentioned private security as a solution, but I have seen "rent-a-cops" around here, and they generally tend to be even more inept than the local police force, and in this situation that could be very bad.
It is very disheartening reading of all the break-ins on St John, but as we are all aware crime truly is EVERYWHERE. I am originally from a decent section of the Bronx but the excitement was only miles away. I now live in Rochester, NY where the crime rate is increasing rapidly. While on STJ 3 years ago my group had about $180 stolen from us at Trunk. My first reaction was anger. How could this happen in my paradise? When reality set in I thought how stupid was I to leave that kind of $ unattended while I played in the water. This past year I was introducing my sisters to the island that I talk about endlessly. When we arrived at our villa I asked about how the crime was due to reports I had recently read about villa break-ins. I was very disappointed, angry, heartbroken and afraid when I was informed that someone had tried to get in two or three days earlier at about 5am. I didn't know whether or not to take on the stress and the role of the great protector or to be honest and make everyone aware. I was so afraid that this would ruin their take on the place that has been in my heart for years, but I knew I had to be honest and give them the opportunity to cope with it how they chose. Our Villa Rep Lisa was awesome. We had a perimeter alarm that would sound if anyone entered onto the property and a house alarm as well. Unfortunately, the perimeter alarm sounded during the night twice during our stay. We don't know if it was a person or an animal but we were aware as were they. I don't know if I was ever truly relaxed but that may have been that I was concerned about my family being afraid. Looking back at it now I do believe that I learned from this experience as well. Nomatter where we are we should always be aware of our surroundings. Even the most beautiful tropical paradise (STJ) has people who are influenced by poverty, drugs, alchohol, and sometimes just a cruel streak or enjoy a challenge. I will continue to look forward to enjoying STJ but while doing that, I will be aware and take the steps needed to be smart and safe.
That's a good question, and I have mixed feelings about it. He disclosed the area, so is it really necesssary to know which villa? I'm not sure that it would be fair to the villa owner. This could have happened anywhere to any one of us. What this situation does tell me is I need to ask more questions about the villas I choose to rent and use as much caution and common sense on STJ as anywhere else.
First: there is crime on STJ. But we haven't had a crime thread here for a while. These threads can stir up pretty primal feelings.
We live in a large city, have for years, and my job brings me into frequent contact with various elements of the criminal justice city. Bad stuff can happen and all of our precautions are not guaranteed to protect us. We always stay fairly much on alert. We can certainly take precautions to reduce the likelihood of becoming victims of crime. We have more frightening stuff go on in a morning than STJ has in a year. We have some stuff happen here that has never happened on STJ.
I have the impression that most posters here don't live in cities. i always find it fascinating to listen to people who don't live in cities discuss crime and safety. I sometimes have the sense of being from another planet.
The STJ crime statistics are interesting. The clearance rate is horrible and someone should be publicly held accountable humiliated because of it. But the number that I found even more interesting was the 288 reported crimes in 07 and 08. That's about one crime committed every other day. One crime, every other day. They don't catch many people who commit crimes, but fortunately not many happen. I can't imagine many places with lower crime rates. A crime every other day. I'd be pretty satisfied with that, wouldn't really feel a need to look for someplace with a lower crime rate.
The combining of the STT and STJ statistics is an odd thing to do. I can't imagine what value that would have. Perhaps they should include the figures from Water Island, also. If that were totalled in, the combined statistics would suggest that Water Island is a much more dangerous place than most people believe.
There is more crime on STJ than there used to be, and certainly more major crime. It used to be said that most of the crime on STJ was crime of opportunity. That's probably still true, but there is more crime of intent than there once was. On STJ is easy to be lulled into feeling that we're paradise and stop taking normal, common sense precautions. It is paradise, but there are some snakes in paradise. These forums and a candid realtor can be very helpful and valuable.
How infrequently these incidents occur and the strong reaction on this forum when they do, is an indication of how unusual they are. There do seem to be clusters of crimes, leading to the theory that some bad guys come to the island, do some crimes, then disappear. Things settle down, then after a while, another episode.
Law enforcement is another matter. It's clearly not a simple thing to solve or it would have been. All islanders would like their home to be safer and to feel better protected by their police. Much like residents of large cities on the mainland who want their city safer, but don't know how to do that. Politics and the criminal justice system in the VI is complicated and messy. Politically it is the U.S., but culturally it's the Caribbean.
Sometimes threads like this one begin to caution that if things aren't straightened out, tourism will suffer. Residents are reminded that they are dependent on tourism and they better make their island safer or tourists will stop coming. I imagine that residents do want their home to be safer. It's certainly not that they don't care.
Also, with all the dire warnings that tourists will stop coming, tourists keep coming. Most tourists don't know anything about this latest incident. Over two million people visit the USVI annually. This thread has only had a couple thousand hits (and many of them were repeats by the same people). Short of a very high profile incident that will make national news, what goes on in the Caribbean goes unnoticed.
We went to VG last year after many years on going nowhere in the Caribbean other than STJ. VG probably does have an even lower crime rate than STJ, but we certainly didn't stop going to STJ because we felt unsafe. "Safe", to me, does not necessarily mean crime-free. STJ is a safe place, but there is crime (one every other day) and sadly, our best efforts may not necessarily protect us from being the victim of a crime. It's unlikely, and we can reduce the chances, but there is no absolute guarantee.
We live in a large city, have for years, and my job brings me into frequent contact with various elements of the criminal justice city. Bad stuff can happen and all of our precautions are not guaranteed to protect us. We always stay fairly much on alert. We can certainly take precautions to reduce the likelihood of becoming victims of crime. We have more frightening stuff go on in a morning than STJ has in a year. We have some stuff happen here that has never happened on STJ.
I have the impression that most posters here don't live in cities. i always find it fascinating to listen to people who don't live in cities discuss crime and safety. I sometimes have the sense of being from another planet.
The STJ crime statistics are interesting. The clearance rate is horrible and someone should be publicly held accountable humiliated because of it. But the number that I found even more interesting was the 288 reported crimes in 07 and 08. That's about one crime committed every other day. One crime, every other day. They don't catch many people who commit crimes, but fortunately not many happen. I can't imagine many places with lower crime rates. A crime every other day. I'd be pretty satisfied with that, wouldn't really feel a need to look for someplace with a lower crime rate.
The combining of the STT and STJ statistics is an odd thing to do. I can't imagine what value that would have. Perhaps they should include the figures from Water Island, also. If that were totalled in, the combined statistics would suggest that Water Island is a much more dangerous place than most people believe.
There is more crime on STJ than there used to be, and certainly more major crime. It used to be said that most of the crime on STJ was crime of opportunity. That's probably still true, but there is more crime of intent than there once was. On STJ is easy to be lulled into feeling that we're paradise and stop taking normal, common sense precautions. It is paradise, but there are some snakes in paradise. These forums and a candid realtor can be very helpful and valuable.
How infrequently these incidents occur and the strong reaction on this forum when they do, is an indication of how unusual they are. There do seem to be clusters of crimes, leading to the theory that some bad guys come to the island, do some crimes, then disappear. Things settle down, then after a while, another episode.
Law enforcement is another matter. It's clearly not a simple thing to solve or it would have been. All islanders would like their home to be safer and to feel better protected by their police. Much like residents of large cities on the mainland who want their city safer, but don't know how to do that. Politics and the criminal justice system in the VI is complicated and messy. Politically it is the U.S., but culturally it's the Caribbean.
Sometimes threads like this one begin to caution that if things aren't straightened out, tourism will suffer. Residents are reminded that they are dependent on tourism and they better make their island safer or tourists will stop coming. I imagine that residents do want their home to be safer. It's certainly not that they don't care.
Also, with all the dire warnings that tourists will stop coming, tourists keep coming. Most tourists don't know anything about this latest incident. Over two million people visit the USVI annually. This thread has only had a couple thousand hits (and many of them were repeats by the same people). Short of a very high profile incident that will make national news, what goes on in the Caribbean goes unnoticed.
We went to VG last year after many years on going nowhere in the Caribbean other than STJ. VG probably does have an even lower crime rate than STJ, but we certainly didn't stop going to STJ because we felt unsafe. "Safe", to me, does not necessarily mean crime-free. STJ is a safe place, but there is crime (one every other day) and sadly, our best efforts may not necessarily protect us from being the victim of a crime. It's unlikely, and we can reduce the chances, but there is no absolute guarantee.