usvi-on-line
Another take on the "Buster" story
pjayer said:
Having said all that and IMHO, I really don’t think it’s too much to expect a prompt response by any police department anywhere in the US or a US territory when a report comes in that someone is threatening to hurt or kill others and has a weapon(s).
Well, I personally have more faith in some of the locals responding to an out of bounds drunk then the local "constables." When I was down there a couple of years ago Island Blues was burgularized [again], their whole safe was ripped off, and a fair amount of mean spirited vandalism done. Coral Bay's Finest response to Emily of Island Blues' ownership? "You should have had a security camera" and they never even bothered to ask the folks next store if they saw or heard anything. The same week Skinny's was broken into, along with the Syzergy Art gallery. Skinny's had a camera that caught the guy eating a sandwich and drinking a beer. The guy was a well known Coral Bay pain in the ass. The cops response? They wouldn't arrest him. Didn't really matter. For all practical purposes the chump was "thrown off of the island", a sort of frontier form of justice. None of the merchants, or bartenders or wait staff would serve him, so he left.
Having said all that and IMHO, I really don’t think it’s too much to expect a prompt response by any police department anywhere in the US or a US territory when a report comes in that someone is threatening to hurt or kill others and has a weapon(s).
Well, I personally have more faith in some of the locals responding to an out of bounds drunk then the local "constables." When I was down there a couple of years ago Island Blues was burgularized [again], their whole safe was ripped off, and a fair amount of mean spirited vandalism done. Coral Bay's Finest response to Emily of Island Blues' ownership? "You should have had a security camera" and they never even bothered to ask the folks next store if they saw or heard anything. The same week Skinny's was broken into, along with the Syzergy Art gallery. Skinny's had a camera that caught the guy eating a sandwich and drinking a beer. The guy was a well known Coral Bay pain in the ass. The cops response? They wouldn't arrest him. Didn't really matter. For all practical purposes the chump was "thrown off of the island", a sort of frontier form of justice. None of the merchants, or bartenders or wait staff would serve him, so he left.
When you find yourself in a hole.... quit digging.
Thanks for the update Pat. We'll visit at least once during our week in November. I'm hungry for another great piece of fish in a wonderful place.ShipwreckPat wrote:For the record, he has
repented and apologized to
both Dennis and myself and wished he could do the same to those that witnessed his actions.
Cheers, RickG
S/V Echoes - Coral Bay - St. John, VI
I've commented on the"policing" in St John several times. While we all know it is virtually non- existent compared to where we live, we certainly don't pay big $ to deal with this nonsense when we go away. But no response, that is ridiculous and unfortunately not surprising to me. Sometimes it takes weeks to arrest people they already know did the crime etc. and we are talking about a very small island!!! A policeman/detective would love to work under those circumstances- small island, limited accesibilty. All in all it's ridiculous- apologize for waving a gun at people- are you kidding me?- how could he not be in jail? Imagine if one of us got drunk and did that in the middle of the town! As I have said they need to get a handle on this kind of thing and the small thefts etc. or everyone will suffer if tourism declines further- more closures less tax revenue. Read "Tradewinds" and see that it looks like it took the BVI police to figure out a St. John boat theft- it doesn't read like the owner got very much help from the St. John police. It won't stop me from going there in the least but it's becoming a concern.
Just to keep this in perspective: Over the years I have seen plenty of tourists (and locals) driving with an open beer and a joint hanging out of their mouth while cruising along Centerline or the North Shore roads.
I guess my point is, when people want to get their party on at the beach or on island they want the police to look the other way. All I'm saying is you can't have it both ways.
Flip Flop and I were discussing this incident the other night and we both had the same reaction: there's more there there (to rob from Gertrude Stein).
Not that the action by Buster was justified under any circumstances but we all know that racial tensions can run high. And having read the post on the other forum there was clearly a disagreement that was caused by a racial slur. The poster claimed the guy said "come over here white boy" to his son. Call me skeptical -- but I don't think that's the WHOLE story. Just like that guy who was on island a few years ago and claimed to have been jumped by a bunch of boys and beaten. I think there was more to that than met the eye.
As a woman, I have wandered around late at night, alone in town and elsewhere on island and have NEVER ONCE felt unsafe.
Bottom line is this: I've seen a lot of crazy stuff on island over the years. You just have to go with the flow.
I have a better chance of getting robbed, killed or raped right here in Fairfax County than I do on STJ and I am appreciative of those odds (that's why they call it vacation
).
While we all love STJ, we tend to look at it with rose colored glasses. Hence the comments like: "the waitress was rude to me." People forget-- you're on vacation, they are not. And though STJ may feel like a grown up Disney World at times, it isn't. It's a real place, with real people and real flaws.
As for the police response issue-- that's valid but we've got the same problem here in Fairfax County. Ask any victim of crime-- it takes time for them to get to you- and sometimes they never come. Not enough officers and too much crime-- and this is one of the wealthiest county's in the US.
That being said, let the other folks stay home. I like the island just the way it is... warts and all.
I guess my point is, when people want to get their party on at the beach or on island they want the police to look the other way. All I'm saying is you can't have it both ways.
Flip Flop and I were discussing this incident the other night and we both had the same reaction: there's more there there (to rob from Gertrude Stein).
Not that the action by Buster was justified under any circumstances but we all know that racial tensions can run high. And having read the post on the other forum there was clearly a disagreement that was caused by a racial slur. The poster claimed the guy said "come over here white boy" to his son. Call me skeptical -- but I don't think that's the WHOLE story. Just like that guy who was on island a few years ago and claimed to have been jumped by a bunch of boys and beaten. I think there was more to that than met the eye.
As a woman, I have wandered around late at night, alone in town and elsewhere on island and have NEVER ONCE felt unsafe.
Bottom line is this: I've seen a lot of crazy stuff on island over the years. You just have to go with the flow.
I have a better chance of getting robbed, killed or raped right here in Fairfax County than I do on STJ and I am appreciative of those odds (that's why they call it vacation
). While we all love STJ, we tend to look at it with rose colored glasses. Hence the comments like: "the waitress was rude to me." People forget-- you're on vacation, they are not. And though STJ may feel like a grown up Disney World at times, it isn't. It's a real place, with real people and real flaws.
As for the police response issue-- that's valid but we've got the same problem here in Fairfax County. Ask any victim of crime-- it takes time for them to get to you- and sometimes they never come. Not enough officers and too much crime-- and this is one of the wealthiest county's in the US.
That being said, let the other folks stay home. I like the island just the way it is... warts and all.
*Another fine scatterbrained production
-
California Girl
Gromit's got it right. There are always 2 sides to every story (not that that justifies gun play). Most people don't just get pissed off for no reason. Even if Buster called the guy's son "white boy", I'm sure there was an opportunity to turn and walk the other way, but from what it's beginning to sound like, the "tourist" became confrontational. You have to really be conscious of who you piss off. I've learned that in California. I don't flip off people on the freeway any more since so many of them carry guns and aren't the least bit afraid to use them. In the immortal words of (that felon) Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"
I agree with all of those last 2 posts and as I said it certainly wouldn't deter me- after all, I live outside of Baltimore, nearly a murder a day!! I am just concerned that they seem to look the other way at serious issues- I mean you can't compare open container with waving a gun- It doesn't matter who started the altercation or who is drunk. that is something the police are there to figure out. They don't respond here quickly but that doesn't make it right, atleast here and in Fairfax they have an excuse that they are busy- they certainly don't have that in St. John. Bottom line is I guess I'm just paranoid that they letting some things slide and before you know it they have crime like STT and STX or an incident like Aruba- it's not good for anyone no matter how much you and I like small crowds.
PS I love the Rodney King quote that was a good laugh- he's a real peach isn't he?
PS I love the Rodney King quote that was a good laugh- he's a real peach isn't he?
To clarify, the "Come here white boy" incedent was posted on September 23, 2007 and was completely unrelated to the Buster incedent. For some reason, the Buster incedent was posted under the same thread. Doesn't mean the incedent was unprovoked, but that's not what provoked it.
Last edited by pjayer on Tue Jul 15, 2008 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
When the end of the world comes, I want to be in Kentucky, because everything there happens 20 years after it happens anywhere else. – Mark Twain
A lot of people can get pretty volatile when they drink. A slim few can become so enraged that they chase people down and threaten them with guns and knives. That's not just a guy who had to much to drink, that's a time bomb that's ticking. An armed man in a drunken rage is really dangerous. It's fortunate that no one died.
I know that the VIPD don't go looking for trouble and it wouldn't surprise me if, like everybody else, they decided to avoid the enraged drunk who was waving a gun and a knife around. There's no SWAT team on STJ and there's no knowing how the arrival of the VIPD might have affected the situation. It doesn't sound like this guy was about to back down and I wouldn't imagine that the VIPD are well trained for such situations. But if nothing changes, then nothing changes. There's still a loose cannon there and who knows what might set it off again.
I know that the VIPD don't go looking for trouble and it wouldn't surprise me if, like everybody else, they decided to avoid the enraged drunk who was waving a gun and a knife around. There's no SWAT team on STJ and there's no knowing how the arrival of the VIPD might have affected the situation. It doesn't sound like this guy was about to back down and I wouldn't imagine that the VIPD are well trained for such situations. But if nothing changes, then nothing changes. There's still a loose cannon there and who knows what might set it off again.
I usually stay out of this type of dialogue, but I am baffled by the laissez-faire response to this.
I don't care about the fact that crime rates are higher where I live. I don't care about there being more to this story. And I don't care that the guy is now sorry.
What I care about is that there were other people, some with children, who had to go through this ordeal. We were there back in May and I'm quite positive that having a guy brandish a gun in a threatening manner in front of my family is probably something that would have ruined our vacation and not something we'd be sitting around laughing about now.
I can't imagine the feeling of helplessnes or having to console my 4 year old and wife afterwards.
There are so many what if scenarios, the mind boggles. What if the gun went off? What if someone had intervened in defense of their family?
And then to consider that the police haven't done any thing and this guy is still driving around drunk with a machete and a gun is just absurd to me. Hopefully the 'frontier justice' that has been mentioned starts with the confiscation of these items, otherwise it's likely to happen again.
There's a reason many of us prefer STJ over other destinations in the Caribbean. Feels like that degree of difference just got a little bit smaller.
I don't care about the fact that crime rates are higher where I live. I don't care about there being more to this story. And I don't care that the guy is now sorry.
What I care about is that there were other people, some with children, who had to go through this ordeal. We were there back in May and I'm quite positive that having a guy brandish a gun in a threatening manner in front of my family is probably something that would have ruined our vacation and not something we'd be sitting around laughing about now.
I can't imagine the feeling of helplessnes or having to console my 4 year old and wife afterwards.
There are so many what if scenarios, the mind boggles. What if the gun went off? What if someone had intervened in defense of their family?
And then to consider that the police haven't done any thing and this guy is still driving around drunk with a machete and a gun is just absurd to me. Hopefully the 'frontier justice' that has been mentioned starts with the confiscation of these items, otherwise it's likely to happen again.
There's a reason many of us prefer STJ over other destinations in the Caribbean. Feels like that degree of difference just got a little bit smaller.
Well put, Diver. I also am kind of shocked by some of the responses. I keep thinking about the fear that the family and others present must have felt. I know if I were there with my 11 year old, she would probably still be having nightmares now. I did read the post by the family on the other forum and all I could wonder is how they ever slept that night (or all of the others that followed) They reported that they had been followed. Again, it almost doesn't matter what may have provoked it. It wasn't a shouting or even shoving match that ensued.....it was a gun. Apologies and drunkeness seem to have made it acceptable and everyone seems to want to point the finger at the victim(s). Maybe they were drunk too, and maybe they even apolgized for what may have taken place earlier, but they were still pursued with a machete and gun. As much as I love STJ, I don't blame them for not wanting to return, but I won't go as far to say that I'm glad they won't because there will be more room on the beach for me. They suffered a terrifying event with no aid from the police. Just my .02.
I have to agree with the tenor of the last few posts - if someone pointed a gun into a crowded restaurant, or even at a single person, and the police were notified of that fact but did not act on it - there is absolutely no excuse for that.
If "Buster" pulls the trigger the next time that he's regrettably drunk and feels insulted, and someone dies as a result, I'd think the VIPD would be in a world of trouble...
If "Buster" pulls the trigger the next time that he's regrettably drunk and feels insulted, and someone dies as a result, I'd think the VIPD would be in a world of trouble...
Come see us!
Not sure how many times the last few folks have been to the VI or how much time they've spent there.
The reality is that a lot of folks living down there are running away from something-- whether it's the cold weather, a bad relationship, reality or the IRS. So the island is full of characters.
Anyone who's spent any time with these folks know that it's generally a lot of show. A bunch of sound and fury signifying nothing. Not a lot different from small towns all over the U.S. Everyone's got their crazies and occasionally they like to shake things up.
Generally, if you're respectful of locals and aren't running drugs you aren't going to have a problem.
As for the laissez faire attitude -- I think that's pretty consistent with the spirit of STJ in general and hence the responses of those folks who have spent a great deal of time on island.
Things have a way of working themselves out down there-- just not the same way that WE would expect them to.
I still feel safe and I've got 2 lengthy trips booked (December 08 and June 09).
During both time stretches you'll find me at Shipwreck muching on some good food and drinking with the boaties at the bar.
Hell, I might even buy Buster a drink if he's around
Peace.
The reality is that a lot of folks living down there are running away from something-- whether it's the cold weather, a bad relationship, reality or the IRS. So the island is full of characters.
Anyone who's spent any time with these folks know that it's generally a lot of show. A bunch of sound and fury signifying nothing. Not a lot different from small towns all over the U.S. Everyone's got their crazies and occasionally they like to shake things up.
Generally, if you're respectful of locals and aren't running drugs you aren't going to have a problem.
As for the laissez faire attitude -- I think that's pretty consistent with the spirit of STJ in general and hence the responses of those folks who have spent a great deal of time on island.
Things have a way of working themselves out down there-- just not the same way that WE would expect them to.
I still feel safe and I've got 2 lengthy trips booked (December 08 and June 09).
During both time stretches you'll find me at Shipwreck muching on some good food and drinking with the boaties at the bar.
Hell, I might even buy Buster a drink if he's around
Peace.
Last edited by Gromit on Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
*Another fine scatterbrained production
