Dining in or Dining out on STJ- Discussion Post

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[sherban]

It's all about supply/demand and convenience/quality to me. We balance cost versus "benefit" when we make choices on how to spend our money.

When I am on vacation it is about us, we are always respectful and considerate of the places we go...but the vacation is about us. My wife and I both do volunteer work and give money to selected charities...on a regular basis.

[Pete (Mr. Marcia)]

For what it's worth, we eat most, if not all, dinners out. We usually can't finish all that is served, so we bring it back to the villa...after our usual stop at the Beach Bar for Bushwhackers with legs. Last night's dinner is today's lunch...reworked, ala Marcia, which is to say, better than it originally was.

Today, lunch was thinly sliced rib-eye from the Banana Deck, along with chilled broccoli spears and potato salad made from the left-over baked potato...it didn't suck.

In short, dinner out, breakfast and lunch in. I don't know if we're helping the local restaurants, but I do know that the bartenders are lining their pockets with our sweet Wisconsin cash.

[patr]

Interesting topic, I was wondering if the U.S. economic woes (we're not calling it a recession ) had affected the tourism on St. John.

For us personally - we are only planning one trip this year as opposed to two last year. Typically we cook mainly breakfast at the villa and perhaps two or three dinners during a 2-week stay.
So, most of our meals are eaten out. However, this is the first year I am seriously contemplating taking a cooler of meat.

But even if we don't eat as many meals out, we still will be renting a villa & Jeep, will shop in the grocery, buy gas, enjoy painkillers, Coronas & Bushwackers, shop and leave plenty (if not as much) $$ on the island.

I suppose it is basically a matter of the trickle-down theory. Truly everyone is affected in one way or another. WE NEED CHANGE! Sorry, I"ll step down off of my soapbox now.

On vaca, we are more relaxed and we honestly enjoy cooking which we don't have time to enjoy in the everyday rush-around world.
And besides that, it's fun to pretend that the villa actually belongs to us and that we are really residing there. Kinda like playing house. We refer to the villa as "our house."

I don't enjoy laundry and cleaning up and such mundane domestic tasks nearly as much when I am in my own home.

[chrisn]

Well, here's my two cents. It does seem like more people are bringing or shipping food items to be cooked at the villa. This combined with the struggles of eateries to remain open sure does point out (to me anyway) that the upswing of people eating in may be hurting the island ecomomy.

On the flip side though, and this is just my situation but traveling to/vactioning in the islands is definitely not cheap. Feeding four of us for 15 days is $$$$. This trip, we plan on eating out probably twice a day and also grilling at the villa or having appetizers. I will bring/ship things but the majority of our meals will be eaten out.

This morning we were reminiscing while looking through pics of our June 2006 trip. It's killing us all. We're like 4 bulls getting ready to stampede out of the gate. 5 weeks...

[StJohnRuth]

EXCELLENT discussion. This is a complex issue and there are many factors. Keep on!
-Ruth

[irbgolfin]

Our upcoming trip to StJ will be our 4th villa trip, 3rd to StJ - the other was Anguilla, these have all been over the last 8 years.

We typically eat lunch out and breakfast and dinner in, but don't bring stuff, we buy it local. We just eat something simple like cereal or a bagel for breakfast. Dinner is usually made up of prepared sides with a main dish to grill, so it limits the amount of work (I do the grilling, not my wife, no biggie for me as long as I have a view and a cold drink ) In the past 3 trips, amounting to just over 3 weeks, we've eaten dinner out twice. We make the choice in part due to the cost (though we could easily afford it there's the value aspect, the reason we have money isn't because we make big $$$, it's because we don't spend it recklessly!). More moderate priced places would mean we'd be more likely to eat out, but as has been mentioned the economics of rent and taxes might make that difficult for a restaurant to provide. The other is because we're not as socially outgoing, one reason we choose the villa is we enjoy our privacy compared to a resort, and as long as we're paying for the pool and view, that's a great part of the vacation for us.

On our upcoming trip, we're spending a week at a hotel on STT before heading to StJ (the week's room is free due to saving of Marriott points for 7 years, did I mention I don't spend recklessly? . As such, we'll have been eating out a fair amount already and the option of eating in will be welcome, so I doubt we'll do more than lunch out, and maybe not even that all the time.

On a side note, with the economy "slowing" as is being reported, and the significant growth on StJ, I myself have wondered how long it can continue. I have no idea, but as a solid middle class person with no debt and money in the bank, I have trouble justifying spending the $$$ for a trip like this compared to alternatives. A big factor for us on taking the Caribbean trips has been cashing in FF miles, which is getting more difficult and I no longer earn any - I've finally gotten under a ticket, having successfully scored Skysavers to use up my miles. Living in CVG (most expensive airport in the US) and seeing minimum STT fares of $500, typical $700-800, and frequently over $1000, I would not be making this trip if I'm tacking on another $1,500 for airfare. Sadly, I expect this to be my last visit for the foreseeable future. While I enjoy the USVI, there are other places to see that won't set me back as much. And we have some other alternatives that we'd like to try.

My understanding is the food/beverage industry is generally a tough one, and in an expensive locale like StJ it's even more so. Given the slowdown in discretionary spending I'm not surprised to hear restaurant folks saying this.

I don't want this to come across negatively, but preferably just as my "unemotional" observation.

irbgolfin

[bevm]

Having been on-island for 10 days I've noted there's no lack of people drinking (ourselves included) in restaurants but not many people eating. We were at the Banana Deck tonight and there were only a few people eating around 6-7:00. We try to eat out a few nights and stay in a few nights. But what scares me is that many establishments are for sale here. From the people we've spoken with we were told that the owners are having a really hard time because most people are choosing to eat at their villas. I know it's a huge expense to come to St. John and I feel very torn. We work hard for our money and look forward to our vacation for months but I also know that these people are dependant on our money also. We try to spread it around as much as we can. I would hate to think that some of the places we love so much may not be here beacuse we aren't patronizing them.

[mrsb]

We eat in typically every day for breakfast and about half the time for dinner when we rent a villa on St John. After paying loads of money for the villa where we stay and not being there all day I feel guilty about not eating at the villa or spending some sort of time there. We do bring meats down. I did take some time last year to really look at quality in the grocery stores and prices. It was ok, not really impressive (talking about beef/chicken/bacon) and mostly double or triple what we pay here. We choose to keep coming back to St John because it is not like some islands where the profits from travel do not go to local people at all and the islands are very poor outside of the resorts. Renting a villa pays for at least a villa rep., a cleaning crew, a maintenance person or crew and VI taxes. We rent a vehicle, we buy groceries to supplement what we did not bring. We buy alcohol and souvenirs. Like others have said villas lend themselves to cooking in.

One of my relatives has a friend who owns a local eatery. They are dead, dead, dead right now. It's not just St John. Restaurants also have about a 60% failure rate and I bet that is conservative. Most small business fail within the first three years. I would hazard a guess to say that most people who live on St John aren't eating out as much either. There are many houses and shops up for rent or sale right now in my area which is not a poor area. It says a lot.

[Puddlejumper]

This is a great discussion. I had a discussion about this very thing with someone at one of the villa management companies last week. Part of my job involves selling to restaurants and villa management companies. The restaurants are suffering from lower than expected sales, likely due in part to people staying in. Villa guest definitely have an impact on restaurants when they eat in. The choice may be need or preference. Doesn't really matter, but the choice is impacting the economy. The villa mgmt person says their guest are definitely staying in more often. Rent and WAPA (utilities) are extremely high here. Making it very difficult to survive as a restaurant, even when sales are good.

[Teresa_Rae]

In general we’ll either put more money towards the villa or more money towards eating out for dinner.

If we stay at a cheaper villa with a kitchen that isn’t wonderful, then I won’t want to cook in as much and we’ll eat out more. A crappy kitchen that makes cooking challenging does not feel like vacation to me.

But if we pay more for a villa that has a good kitchen we’ll be much more likely to stay in and cook dinner because we want to enjoy the villa itself.

A few years ago we rented a place that had a horrible kitchen with bad pots, utensils, etc, which really encouraged us to eat out a lot. But it was a cheaper villa, so it kind of balanced out...we spent less on the villa but more at restaurants. That said, even in a villa with a sub-par kitchen, we’ll still eat in a couple nights because we like to stay at the beach late and by the time we get back to the villa and clean up, sometimes it’s just too late to go to a restaurant.

We often decide if we’re eating in or out based on the no-see-ums; if there are a lot of them at the beach, we’ll head back to the villa early and eat out, but if it’s a relatively bug free night we’ll stay later at the beach and be more likely to eat at the villa.

[b-as-u-r]

Interesting. I don't think I've really ever given it much thought, that is until this upcoming trip (which reminds me, is it Friday yet?). We typically eat a quick breakfast in or grab something (muffin, bagel, bread) from Deli Grotto when we stop to pick up our take-out lunch for the beach and then we usually go out to a restaurant for dinner (preceded by snacks and drinks at the villa). The most I've ever cooked in on any given trip for dinner was twice. I guess it's a combination of me just being lazy as well as feeling that it's a treat to eat out during vacation; besides someone else's cooking always tastes better to me (hence, I cannot cook like Liamsaunt). During that spring break week in March (as previously referenced), my group of 4 went out to dinner without reservations (maybe I was just lucky); I'm just not organized enough to plan ahead and decide on what time I'm going to be hungry and what type of food I'll be in the mood for. However, this upcoming trip is with someone who really just doesn't like to eat out. He enjoys really good food, actually loves food more than most people I know, has plenty of money to dine whereever he chooses but just prefers to cook his own meals. He's a laid-back, good natured guy so he'll do whatever everyone else wants, but I know ahead of time what his preference will be. So, I am seriously considering eating in a couple of nights on this trip. I can also say that I will definitely not ship any food for this trip or any future trips. Yes Starfish market can be a little pricey, but the convenience is worth it to me. Overall, I will continue to frequent the restaurants on island. Ali~

[pjayer]

We choose to keep coming back to St John because it is not like some islands where the profits from travel do not go to local people at all and the islands are very poor outside of the resorts. Renting a villa pays for at least a villa rep., a cleaning crew, a maintenance person or crew and VI taxes. We rent a vehicle, we buy groceries to supplement what we did not bring. We buy alcohol and souvenirs.

mrsb's comments above pretty much sum up how we feel about vacationing in STJ. In addition to a vehicle, we're purchasing gas, and our villa fee includes an 8% VI hotel tax. So, I do feel like I am contributing something to STJ's economy whether I eat in the villa or visit a restaurant.

If people aren't eating out as much, the restaurants have to be suffering and that doesn't make anyone happy. No one wants to see anyone lose their business or their job on STJ or anywhere else.

With the price of almost everything rising, people just don't have as much discretionary income and are cutting expenses where they can. I know this is true for us. For example, last year was our first week-long stay on STJ, and we ate dinner out every night. If I had my preference, that would be what we would do again this year. However, we're planning to do about half and half in July to save some dollars.

Unfortunately, until the economy improves and people feel more secure financially, I'm afraid we'll see many types of businesses bite the dust. I'm not one to dwell on the past much, but I'll take the peace and prosperity of the 90's over our current condition any day! Let's hope things improve soon for everyone.

[JT]

Wow! Lots of views here. For us, a big part of the vacation is our daily bar time. We come home with scabs on our elbows. We spend a fortune in Coral Bay at Blues, Shipwreck, Aqua Bistro, Skinny's, Donkey Diner, Sputniks, Vie's and Sweet Plantains.
We have most breakfasts in the villa, though at least once a week Donkey Diner is a must. Years ago we did breakfast at Pickles because it was cheap.
I love to cook, but I have found that for just two people that it isn't economically worth it to cook dinner at the villa, especially meats. I find the quality and selection, for the price, to be pretty mediocre. So BT and I eat a lot of omelets in the morning, peanut butter and jelly sandwiches on the beach, dinners in the aforementioned fine establishments of debauchery. We also always have a few local live on boaters up to our villa for a dinner, or two, for a home cooked meal, and a shower!
Two times we've gone as a group of four. We tended to have a few more dinners at the villa then.

[flip-flop]

Very interesting post. Having put myself through college working in a restaurant, I know how tough the business is. It is a fun life, which made it very hard to leave behind, but the work is long and the reward is typically small!

A couple of things. We don't take any frozen food with us. We might fill in the suitcase with non-perishables where they will fit, but we don't take an extra bag of anything. (Disclaimer: if a baby is involved we will pack or ship what we need for said baby).

On St. John, we typically do 1/2 and 1/2 for Breakfast, Lunch and Dinner. We probably eat in more for Breakfast than any other meal, but if we are there for 10 days we'll eat out dinner at least 5. Lunch is hit or miss, and really depends on when we get moving. Sometimes we'll pack a sandwich for the beach because we just want to lounge and not have to leave for food. Other times, esp. if we are up and at it early, we'll head to the beach until we get hungry and then head off to Skinny's or Island Blues for lunch before heading back to the pool for afternoon refreshments

I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, or to mean that I want any of the STJ establishments to fail. I don't. But there are truly only a handful of restaurants that I would be heartbroken if they were no more: Uncle Joe's, Skinny Legs, Island Blues, Shipwreck, Miss Lucy's, and Zozo's (on the high end). I have probably forgotten one or two and there are many I haven't tried that I am sure are fabulous. But I have tried a lot of them and for the most part, I can take 'em or leave 'em and I think that's why they are so susceptible to the economic times.

We have a couple that used to be MUST DO's that are off the list because of a lack of consistency in the food and/or service. I worked in the service industry, and my expectations aren't crazy high.

For us, we only go 1x a year, sometimes less often. I wish MORE often, but it is what it is. A lot of us return to STJ over and over, maybe only 1x a year, but visit the same restaurants with regularity each time. The way I see it is I have a limited number of days and if I've had a bad/mediocre meal somewhere - even one of my previous favs - it will fall off the list in favor of a sure thing or trying something new.

Unfortunately, these businesses face a tough challenge of impressing the first time every time. It is not like a restaurant in your hometown where you are more likely to give it a 2nd shot. I certainly don't envy their situation, but there are established restaurants that have been and will be around through the difficult economy. They must be doing something right.