Caneel access

hugo · Post by **hugo** » Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:19 pm

A follow up on my comments on the other thread:
http://stjohnsource.com/content/news/lo ... cess-issue

Agent99 · Post by **Agent99** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:43 am

Interesting. Seems like the resort may be trying to use the excuse that the trail is overgrown and impassable. If it is a condition of the lease that Turtle Point Trail be accessible to the public wouldn't the Park Service have the jurisdiction to go in and clear it?

hugo · Post by **hugo** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:58 pm

Yes, although Caneel has continued to clear the trail consistently in the 30 years or so since it went to the Park. It would be interesting to see if the trail is blocked to Caneel guests....maybe I need to do a little stealth investigation.(':shock:')
There were issues with Caneel clearing new large vistas between the trail and the water without Park permission. There is at least one critically endangered native plant on Hawksnest Point.
Relations between Caneel and the Park are at an all time low, as are relations between Caneel and the St John community. The Park has little power over Caneel's actions until the end of the retained estate and Caneel has seemed to intentionally be testing the boundaries of what they can get away with.

Lovermont · Post by **Lovermont** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 3:49 pm

hugo wrote:Maybe I need to do a little stealth investigation.':shock:'

Ooh... do report back!

Capn Dan and Ruby · Post by **Capn Dan and Ruby** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:00 pm

hugo wrote:A follow up on my comments on the other thread:
http://stjohnsource.com/content/news/lo ... cess-issue

Thanks Hugo for being proactive on this! Keep us posted!

Agent99 · Post by **Agent99** » Sun Jan 08, 2012 7:21 pm

The Park has little power over Caneel's actions until the end of the retained estate and Caneel has seemed to intentionally be testing the boundaries of what they can get away with.

May be time to challenge that. Seems to me there would be little public appetite for a hotel chain flouting the conditions of a contract that is built upon an agreement between the benefactor and a national park.

Full disclosure- I have always wanted to stay at Caneel. Still do. I'm ashamed to say that I did not know about the agreement- I thought Caneel was private property and they were simply being gracious allowing access to Honeymoon and the main Caneel beach.

We've visited many times over the past 20 years and for the past 2 have paid the $10 fee which we would have spent in drinks anyway. We swam around the Caneel beach point to Scott and beyond to Turtle Point because we were told we were not permitted to walk to it. If that is false the resort should have to make accommodations to insure the public access. It would not be that difficult, imo, to protect the privacy of the guests and permit the public access to the trail.

Will be looking forward to your stealth report Hugo.

Need2GetAway · Post by **Need2GetAway** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 11:28 am

It's not clear that the Feds will consider fair market price for the renewal of the Caneel lease (beyond 2023).

It seems to me that if the lease holder refuses to honor the public access requirement then they should not receive a lease extension. In fact, if there isn't going to be public access, perhaps the NPS should sell the property at fair market value - and collect taxes on it too. (But I realize that would be a HUGE bureaucratic/legal process.)

jcm · Post by **jcm** » Mon Jan 09, 2012 5:36 pm

I do think Caneel needs to rethink this issue. We have been going to St.John for
many years, and have recently found we are questioned when we are just
visiting for lunch. Last visit made us think we might not return due to the
inhospitable attitude. My family were guests there for over 30 years, and it has
truly changed.

hugo · Post by **hugo** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:51 pm

Report from my secret but highly reliable sources: As of yesterday, Hawksnest Point Trail is as wide and clear as it's ever been in history.The last clearing took place an estimated 3 weeks ago, based on regrowth of grass.

Capn Dan and Ruby · Post by **Capn Dan and Ruby** » Wed Jan 11, 2012 7:20 pm

Hmmmm. Very interesting! This all stinks of some type of corruption! Sounds like some government agent is getting rich!

cindygad · Post by **cindygad** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 3:53 am

We went to Caneel and parked in their lot. We stopped at the desk and asked if we could hike turtle trail. She got on the phone and called and asked if non hotel customers could hike. They said no. I asked to talk to the security guard. We waited about 15 minutes and he did not show up so we started walking towards trail. We we arrived at the trail the and the security guard was there. At first he started in and said you are not suppose to be walking in this area. I was very nice and explained we just want to walk the trail. He was on the phone trying to get permission or check in with someone and still came back with no. It did tell us they now call it Mary trail. He then nicely drove us back to the parking lot where we got our chairs and cooler to hike to Honeymoon beach.

In the late afternoon we went back to Caneel and put our chairs on beach and snorkeled from Caneel to Scott beach. It was the first we had snorkeled here. There were lots of fish and we will come back to snorkel here again.

Except for not letting us hike we were treated very nicely. We had our drinks at bar before leaving and ticket validated for parking. When my husband went back to jeep to get the snorkel gear he said the lot was completely full. Even the side of road coming in. I guess the increase fee has not stopped people from parking in their lot.

PA Girl · Post by **PA Girl** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:00 am

Interesting. I am glad to hear the staff treated you nicely.

This topic is timely because we are checking into this tour for an upcoming trip -

http://www.viecotours.com/index.php?opt ... &Itemid=88

It is a kayak, snorkel and hike on the trail.

Some time ago, Caneel added massage area near the start of the trail, I wonder if that may be part of the reason they want to keep people away. When we stayed on Hawksnest last June, there were massages goign on all day, every day.

liamsaunt · Post by **liamsaunt** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:46 am

That VI ecotour is sanctioned by Caneel. It's offered as an outing for resort guests at the activity desk. John and I saw people doing it last time we stayed at Caneel. At the time I didn't really understand the appeal--you don't get to kayak very far. I guess it could be a good introduction to kayaking if you have never done it before. You kayak from Caneel to Scott, then snorkel at Scott, then hike the trail and finally kayak back to Caneel.

Cindy, thanks for reporting back on your experience. I am glad the staff was friendly to you. I would have been disappointed to hear otherwise.

parafins · Post by **parafins** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 9:58 am

I recall a sign for massages on the trail to Honeymoon.Is that where it is now?This deal between the park service and the resort is very interesting.I'm glad to know that I was not the only one turned away from Turtle Point.

PA Girl · Post by **PA Girl** » Fri Jan 13, 2012 10:04 am

liamsaunt wrote:That VI ecotour is sanctioned by Caneel. It's offered as an outing for resort guests at the activity desk. John and I saw people doing it last time we stayed at Caneel. At the time I didn't really understand the appeal--you don't get to kayak very far. I guess it could be a good introduction to kayaking if you have never done it before. You kayak from Caneel to Scott, then snorkel at Scott, then hike the trail and finally kayak back to Caneel.

Good to know. I have not kayaked before and we will have our 6yo with us. Sounds tame enough for us.

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Caneel access

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