Tourist killed after being caught in gang crossfire

[Sunflower]

[mit43]

Wow, I guess we are dorks too. Sheila and I have never been offered any drugs in STJ. I was offered Genips, does that count?

I have been thinking back to other Islands and really the only Islands I have never felt unsafe on are STJ, VG, & Nassau. Maybe it's just us. Oh, and we go out of our way to stop and talk to the guys in the park. Just seems like the kind thing to do.

Jamaica was not fun seeing armed guards sitting every 50 feet at night to protect us. We actually canceled a trip to St Martin because the violence is getting so bad. As a tourist, I didn't want to have to worry about driving a rental car at night. Some of the stories are really scary, even for those of us who have been to many Islands.

And Pia, Sorry about the crude comments aimed in your direction. Dorks Unite!

[Larry]

Drugs are everywhere. Its not a common pushed item though, people who are looking tend to go find people who look like suppliers (pushers) and deals get done. This is everywhere. Sometimes you fit the profile of an addict (sorry to all of you non-users who have been approached, but yes you looked cracked out) and people see you as a customer and unlikely UC (undercover officer).

Where there is drugs, there is crime. No matter where you are you need to be smart. Stay out of dark areas, don't walk down empty side streets, and definitely don't start fights with people who you don't know. The last one is probably the biggest deal for STJ. I've seen many fights there between local west indians and a visiting tourist who wanted a fight, sometimes the other way around. Its important to step down against fights.

Do you know who came in 4th in the Olympics for Karate? Could he pretty much kick anyones ass? Don't fight people you don't know.

[toes in the sand]

Interestng assesment. I think you leave out an essential component of your equation. People who do drugs and people who sell drugs (and most likely use them also) tend to have an impaired judgment. Who knows what I look like to them. They also have a need to sell their product and the more desperate they might be the less choosy they will become. If by chance they have a cousin on the force it may make them about as choosy as a lonely drunk at last call.

Who do you think Lizmarie was picking a fight with on a dark empty side street in the middle of the day while riding a safari bus to Coki Beach?

Drugs are everywhere. Its not a common pushed item though, people who are looking tend to go find people who look like suppliers (pushers) and deals get done. This is everywhere. Sometimes you fit the profile of an addict (sorry to all of you non-users who have been approached, but yes you looked cracked out) and people see you as a customer and unlikely UC (undercover officer).

Where there is drugs, there is crime. No matter where you are you need to be smart. Stay out of dark areas, don't walk down empty side streets, and definitely don't start fights with people who you don't know. The last one is probably the biggest deal for STJ. I've seen many fights there between local west indians and a visiting tourist who wanted a fight, sometimes the other way around. Its important to step down against fights.

Do you know who came in 4th in the Olympics for Karate? Could he pretty much kick anyones ass? Don't fight people you don't know.

[bill]

Just returned from St John. Had 11 wonderful days there. We were there at the time the shooting in St. thomas occured. Everyone was very upset to say the least. I felt very safe as usual on St John and when this incident occured I asked several locals if St John was still as safe as I thought it was. I started thinking maybe I am just being naive and not really paying attention to what is going on. The reply I got was that yes, St John is still one of the safest islands, but don't be stupid and walk around Cruz Bay at 1 a.m. If you look for trouble, you will find it. Practical advice for any part of the world.

That being said, I really didn't see any signs of violence or even feeling that I wasn't welcome. Everyone was very friendly and welcoming. I loved our visit to St John as usual. Will be writing a trip report. We just got back on the 15th.

[bevm]

Been offered a few times. And, after a dance recital, have had people ask me for whatever I was on

How many dance recital's do you participate in per year??? I'm sure they put you in the back row after seeing the coconut bra debacle.

[IslandElle]

I do have to say that as tourists, we should not tell residents of the island that they are turning a blind eye or ignoring the problem. We visit for a week or two at a time, they live it every day and how they choose to address the issues in their community is not for us to judge. It is my experience that most residents of STJ are very active in island issues and work very hard to ensure that the island is safe for them and for those visiting.

I am pretty sure that I said some people, not locals are turning a blind eye. I was directing that comment to tourists that come home and say "ST. John was so safe and friendly, the people were great and nothing bad could ever happen there!" Now obviously I am over exaggerating there, but you see my point. That leads newbies like me going for the first time expecting a very warm welcome. Maybe you meant your comment to the thread in a whole and not to me personally.

We did encounter some very friendly people but I just want to mention the others as well because they are there in abundance and I feel like it is very rarely mentioned here.

I cant remember who mentioned it but South Beach was also one place that felt off to me as well and we actually felt unsafe. I actually had my room broken into there and lots of stuff stolen. I once got lost in D.C at 2:00 AM after a delayed flight, picking up my rental car and having no idea how to get to Annapolis since it was dark. That was a really scary night. Those times were much scarier than anything I experienced on St. John, but this thread isn't about those places.

As far as being approached for drugs. It was actually the same guy every time! He was really nice about it, when we said no he didn't push the issue and I think by the end of the second week he knew we weren't going to buy so he would just say "Hi". I don't think we looked, ummm, what was the term? Cracked out. Unless healthy, fit, mid thirties, minding our own business = cracked out. Why is this guy still there every day? If I know where to find then the cops can easily find him.

I am very sorry for this poor girl and her family. She was just wanting to have a good time with her family on their summer vacation and now her entire life has been cut short.

[Larry]

Interestng assesment. I think you leave out an essential component of your equation. People who do drugs and people who sell drugs (and most likely use them also) tend to have an impaired judgment. Who knows what I look like to them. They also have a need to sell their product and the more desperate they might be the less choosy they will become. If by chance they have a cousin on the force it may make them about as choosy as a lonely drunk at last call.

Who do you think Lizmarie was picking a fight with on a dark empty side street in the middle of the day while riding a safari bus to Coki Beach?

The indirect deaths of bystanders is never a direct measure of the intentional crime against victims in an area. As for a drug dealer getting desperate with sales, and a cousin on the force, you're creating a conversation on corruption and market forces. There are plenty who want drugs--lets not pretend its hard to get rid of them. As for corruption, lets bring in some facts on that instead of superimposing our own fantasy visions of how some random deranged drug dealer might be drugged up and looking for prey (to sell to?).

[sherban]

Thanks to all of you for sharing your points of view, I appreciate hearing your viewpoints and opinions, really. I especially appreciate the brave souls who share viewpoints that will undoubtedly be unpopular because of the title of the forum...thanks for being honest. So much of how we feel in a far away place is random and based on our internal state of mind and chemistry at the time...

Case in point--- one night we went to downtown Cruz (5 adults) and my wife got really spooked (to be honest I was a bit dissaponted that she did) I was cool with everything but she was totally unconfortable so we left and went somewhere else. Another night just the two of us went to Woody's and we had a great time meeting strangers and talking with people about topics that I won't divulge here. Humans are wierd...that is why I appeciate people sharing...you never know what it will be like...all you can do is listen to stories until you go see for yourself.
Funny story about drug offers....now that I'm late 40's, balding and graying , I look more like a cop than anything cool (no offense meant!) so when in STT nobody ever approached me EXCEPT when I wore my Bob Marley t-shirt...then I got several offers each day...people would call me from acrosss the street!!!..."Yo bro what's up man?"....etc...

Yeah, you look like dorks...so do I...

Funny.

I believe all of your opinions and more importantly respect them all...how about a hug now???

[bevm]

Maybe that's why we don't get approached. Crash is a cop and looks like one! LOL!

[Jorge]

I hear the local grown weed is not that good anyways. An old friend of mine was given a couple of joints at a bar in Coral Bay a few years ago. Not knowing what to do they purchased some brownie mix at Love City Market and made some snacks. The funny thing is that there spouse is a cop.

[AquaGirl]

Like Sherban, I am also interested in reading different people's point of view. I often (but not always - LOL) carefully consider other opinions, to evaluate whether I should change any of my views.

We have visited STJ three times and love it. We found most of the people very friendly, but I have seen "the glare", just like I have seen it in my hometown area. We only had an issue once. We were in Coral Bay for dinner at Shipwreck and started driving back to Gifft Hill where we were staying. It was dark, maybe 8:30 or 9pm. We stopped at the intersection (where you turn right to head towards Cruz Bay). We lingered for a minute (can't remember why) and a car with some guys pulled up behind us. They honked, so we pulled out and started up the hill out of the Coral Bay area. They followed us very closely, tail-gating on those steep, twisty roads and cursing at us out their windows. My husband drove carefully but as fast as he safely could. We were afraid if they passed us, that they would hassle us in some way. I prayed all the way back as they were riding our bumper. Then they finally turned off of Centerline before we got as far as Cruz Bay. It was one of those very scary experiences, and left us with a bad feeling for the whole evening. Would it keep us from returning to STJ - no. Do we have road rage people in the Washington, DC area as we drive to work - yes, every day, but we still live here.

The current shooting in STT, unfortunately, does make us want to hold off visiting STJ this year (since you have to spend time in STT to get to/from STJ). We will monitor the situation and see if the violence continues on STT to make it risky to go from the airport to the ferry.

I feel so sad for the family of the slain girl, and was thinking about the other people on the taxi as well. I don't think I would be able to continue my vacation if I had witnessed a shooting like that. I would be too upset. I also feel bad for the many business owners, who are not violent and into drugs, and just trying to making a living and support their families. Tourism will probably take a hit, for a while, due to this tragedy.

[Berlingirl]

Yesterdays Travel Weekly had an article about the incident.

NCL, Princess, Royal Caribbean cancel Coki Point Beach tours.

http://www.travelweekly.com/article3_ektid217426.aspx

So many innocent working people depend upon the cruise ship revenue to make an honest living and this drug fueled violence needs to be addressed immediately by the government.

It was followed by this article...

USVI vows to increase police presence

http://www.travelweekly.com/article3_ektid217678.aspx

[Skipd]

I have been a long time lurker on the board. Can't thank everyone enough for all of the great advice and information posted. We have been going to St john for 10 years and have been luckey enough to take about two trips per year.

Over the years we have noticed locals becoming less friendly but that seems to be the case most everywhere, not just St John. Times are getting harder and we understand that. We just had a wedding for our daughter on St John in May and had our first really disappointing experience. We rented a nice villa in Peter Bay with all the up to date alarms, gates, etc. We were boken into our second night and laptops, underwater cameras and passports were stolen . The doors were locked,alarms were armed, gates locked but our stuff was not is the safe provided which was our bad. How they got around all of the alarms, etc we do not know. Door was forced open but alarm did not go off. Driveway gate served no purpose.

The police were a joke. The officer that came out 6 hours after crime being reported said and I quote "times are tough and people are out of work". Brilliant! We were told we could pick up a police report a week later. We went on the date they said and we were told we would have to go to St Thomas to get it no reason just that was the way it is. I requested they reconsider and after about an hour of they guy behind the window talking to what looked like the chief or sargent, I have seen him standing at the area everyone is dropped off at the dock, the guy opened up the filing cabinet and walked over to the copy machine and made a copy. Its the attitude that just kills me. My point is that with the attitude of the police department on St John its not going to get any better. We will continue to enjoy St John but this experience will make us think twice about do we really want to go as often and spend as much money as we do.

[sherban]

Skipd- Welcome out of lurkdom.

That really stinks...sorry to hear that.

What did your villa company say/do? Did they have any feedback on the useless alarm or anything?

That is really too bad...I would have lost my cool....wouldn't have helped but...that scene with the police would push me over the edge...