Grande Bay

[JT]

I agree that it should not have been allowed to be built. That being said, it has been built and it is time to get over it. Sleepy Cruz Bay village has not changed because of it. We have stayed at Grande Bay twice and have loved staying there. It is within walking distance to almost everything, comes with a parking spot and the views are fabulous. It is a great value too. I would not hesitate to stay there again. Once the pool and landscaping are completed it will also blend in better and be less of an eyesore.

Well,gee, stjohnpete,first off: welcome to the forum. I'm not always so cantankerous, but I did feel like telling me that it was "time to get over it" was kind of insulting, but hey, I got thick skin! Glad you liked Grande Bay's view. Oh yeah,the folks that live behind it used to have a nice view of the water,too. Oops,sorry, damn, did we block your view? And I'm glad that when they finish landscaping it that you think it will be "less" of an eyesore. As my kid used to say..NOT! As far as "getting over it" Hugo already responded to that better, and nicer, then I would have. Lex, sometimes I think you should write a book called "Cry The Beloved Island." You better hurry though because soon nobody would "get it."

[jclampet]

I think it really comes down to whether or not you are on or have any influence over the local planning commissions or committees that are approving these locations. It is a local issue and while sad to see, it will continue unless conservationist efforts prevail at the local level. The economy is likely to slow it down for a bit, but other than that you either have the choice to grow with it or find another island to hang out on?

[hugo]

Not to keep beating a dead horse, but the jobs that go to "locals" don't exist as such. What we have are construction jobs (largely illegal immigrants from Haiti and the DR) and service jobs (ditto, although more likely to be legal and female).
What does it take to qualify as a "local" in your book? Six months? Two years? As I look around the island, how many of the 5000+inhabitants are people I have know for 30 years or more? Even of those, probably more than half are from Dominica or St. Lucia, and they came in the 60's or 70's to work at Caneel Bay. Those jobs are why they are here. Wonderful people,most of them, and I've enjoyed knowing them, but their ways were not St. John ways, and tension was high for a long time. ( I won't go into why Virgin Islanders were shunning those jobs, but I'll respond to that question if anyone is interested.)
St. Johnians who get education rarely come back, because all that's available is dead-end jobs.
There was a question about what I don't like about Wharfside. Picture a Cruz Bay without it. A beautiful beach with tall old coconuts, some ruins and a couple of traditional cottages. Cruz Bay was one of the most beautiful places you can imagine. Do I boycott it? I don't really have to. As a non-drinking local, there's absolutely no reason for me to go there. I went to Low Key a year or so ago to buy a new mask, but aside from that, I doubt I'd been there once in the last 6 or 7 years.

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[jclampet]

Hugo, I understand fully what you mean about the jobs, but what I was referring to was the local government (planners). As long as they see fit to allow this kind of construction, it will continue. It is an unfortunate fact that big money investment drives these people to the decisions they make and until that influence is in some way restrained and the planners within government decide they are going to lean more towards conservation, the construction will go on. Now one bright spot is that construction is somewhat hampered by the national park status of most of the island so at least if CB is not to your liking, you can drive a few miles and find plenty of undisturbed peace.

[California Girl]

I won't go into why Virgin Islanders were shunning those jobs, but I'll respond to that question if anyone is interested.

I'm interested! Why?

[Lex]

So hugo--

I'd certainly like you to write more about the sort of stuff that you know about that I'm not going to find in books. I hope you will. What was it that kept local people from wanting the jobs at Caneel? What sort of differences caused the tensions between St Johnians and people from the other islands?

The use of the word "local" is interesting. It seems to be used differently by different people at different times. Sometimes it means anyone who isn't a tourist. Sometimes it means the West Indian population. Sometimes it means someone born on the island or with deep roots there.

Yes Jorge, I also miss the Dockside. But I miss The Kite even more. I'm always struck by the change from the Peter Bay of Victor Hall and The Kite to the Peter Bay of today.

But I do remember our first visit in the 80s and meeting people who told us that we should have gotten there 20 years earlier before all the changes started.
I imagine that today STJ seems great to someone going there for the first time. I can still enjoy it, but I'm increasingly aware of what's been lost. On Virgin Gorda we met people who told us that we should have gotten there 20 years ago before all the changes started. It still looked pretty wonderful to us. We maybe need to spend time in new places that we can appreciate for what they are rather than places that we try to enjoy while grieving what's been lost.

[designbyroe]

St Johnians really haven't gotten much of a share of the economic pie. Most businesses are owned and staffed by people from the mainland.

Mooie saw what was happening:
http://www.seestjohn.com/culture_food_for_thought.html

In fact, although it seems pretty arrogant to quote myself, I'm going to because it was so recent:

http://www.virgin-islands-on-line.com/f ... ht=#136395

We first went to STJ in the mid-80s. It's changed a lot and I don't think of many of the changes as improvements. I'm unable to "get over it", because I remember what was and know what's been lost. Most housing then was still simple, West Indian-style cottages not the ostentatious Mediterranean-style villas of today. Few pools. Trying to conserve water by flushing less and showering economically is silly as long as pools and hot tubs are being filled. The huge concrete monstrosities that have defaced the hills really sadden and sicken me. Grand Bay is grotesque. Sirenusa is hideous. Developers came, money came. The West Indian population and culture are becoming less and less apparent, replaced by a kind of island lifestyle developed by folks from the mainland. Some people who enjoy STJ now wouldn't have liked it 25-30 years ago, and some folks who loved it then enjoy it much less now. Some of what drew people there isn't there anymore.

Tourism: the goose that lays the golden egg, but soils its own nest.

My wife's gotten very sick of my whining and forum members probably have, too. Our last trip to the Caribbean was to Virgin Gorda and I thoroughly enjoyed it. We appreciated it for what it is, although people there spoke of the development and changes happening there. I notice myself whining a lot lately. I really can't "get over it", but I suppose I could "just move on" and stop being a drag.

Actually a fair amount of real estate is owned by natives.
I was told that Woody's and Quiet Mon, the Tradewinds bldg/Tamarind are all owned by native St. Johnians.
I know Marketplace is owned by David Mugar who is from New England.

[designbyroe]

I think it really comes down to whether or not you are on or have any influence over the local planning commissions or committees that are approving these locations. :

We do not have a planning commission on St. John.
As I was told we did offer someone the planning position and they turned it down, due to family illness.
I just think (I am not on island) that St. John gets forgotten.
For people like Hugo, Ruth and Pia, Shipwreck Pat, Joshie (sorry if I forget anyone) this is something they see on a daily basis.
Yes, you must accept some to a point. I give Paul Devine his kudos. He goes to the meetings and talks. I just think more could be done to stop future over development.
Grande Bay and Sirenusance(my name for it) are done and Pond Bay is soon to be completed. Any new projects...no........maybe Craig Barshinger can not do it all as he is only the senator at large but things do need to change and it seems they are going island speed..jmo

[jclampet]

So who makes all your zoning decisions? Man alive, someone has to be keeping an eye on that stuff?

[kirk]

So who makes all your zoning decisions? Man alive, someone has to be keeping an eye on that stuff?

Connections and $$$$$$$$$$$$.

[shoemak38]

Using Vermont as my influence (both places have had many of same issues over last 30 years) and why I love St John. I re-watched a movie called The Four seasons (1981) (Netflix review below) last year and saw how must Vermont changed from early 80’s to now and I came to understand the world is no longer a big place where you can find a backwater with a simple life style not touched by people.

Hugo
My point about jobs lay in your quote “St. Johnians who get education rarely come back, because all that's available is dead-end jobs” I had to leave Vermont due to that very fact. Some growth is needed to keep kids home. Vermont and my guess St John has changed because without kids staying in a community there is no history. Without history there is no sense of community.

I believe a local is someone with a sense of belonging and history of a community (and from your post I would call you a local). I have no answers on how to fix things only 25 years of wondering how! Of course listening to Dave Brubeck’s Summer Song does not help my mood as I write this.

Netflix review
“Chronicling the upscale neuroses of three middle-aged couples, this wry comedy of manners stars Alan Alda (who also directed), Carol Burnett, Sandy Dennis, Len Cariou, Jack Weston and Rita Moreno. The longtime friends take vacations together every season … till one of the men ditches his spouse for a much younger woman (Bess Armstrong), tilting the group dynamics and putting their interrelationships to the test.” One vacation skiing in “Vermont” another on a boat in BVI

[Wakey]

So who makes all your zoning decisions? Man alive, someone has to be keeping an eye on that stuff?

Locals do, bought and paid for with mainland money.

We are all visitors if you think about it, some have been "visiting" longer than others.

And while I don't care for the manner some of these properties were crammed down the throat of St. John, get over it because we suck worse stateside and I wish our voting habits would reflect this.

[Wakey]

( I won't go into why Virgin Islanders were shunning those jobs, but I'll respond to that question if anyone is interested.) b

Have at it, it needs to be said.

[iowaguy]

Gmssstjohn---Welcome to the forum!

Was that discussion helpful to your decision? You may not have realized what a politically charged question you asked for your first post!