Villa specials?

[Pia]

I would definitely ask - I have spoken to quite a few renters that have gotten a deal - my family who are visiting in June for example, received a nice discount by asking.

Can't hurt to ask.

Pia

[susan & herb]

hi everyone,

i am herb of the not so famous susan & herb. i have been a daily lurker as my wife has been the contributor to this wonderful forum. lately i have been troubled by some discussions relating to "deals" and "specials" that has forced me to come out from hiding.

as we all are painfully aware, we are suffering through an economic disaster that has affected our lives in ways too significant to begin to comprehend in its totality. as part of this i fear for this island that we all love so much. this little slice of heaven is a one industry island and i am afraid that "deals" and "specials" will not be the answer.

i am a small business owner and our window of opportunity and budget allows us to return between mid april and late june only. last year we had such a great villa that in order to be sure that we could have it again, we re-booked 3 weeks after we got home. i can assure you if we waited until after the summer we would not be returning as for next year???
what to do, what to do.

some heartfelt suggestions:
1) villa agencies, resorts, and private owners. cut your rates; SIGNIFICANTLY, both in high season and low. higher capacity should, though no guarantee, make up for lower prices. i suggest at least 15%-25% per week. look around you. here in the states, everything, but everything is on sale all the time.

2) restaurants such as zozo, asolare... might offfer a reduced prix fix menu option 7 days a week.

3) car rental agencies low season rate is only $5 less than high season. why bother? how about $20 per day less.

this year will be our 5th consecutive year on island. if the island economy continues to mimick the rest of the country, the future for st. john is bleak; less tourists, closed businesses, lost jobs, crime... hate to be such a downer, but i truly care about the well being of this place.

I eagerly await your comments and suggestions. with great respect to all of you,
herb
,

[lily]

Well said Herb. I'm traveling in June. I've been trying to deal with some companies as well as owners. Some have come down up to 20% off or not charging extra for my kids. But most are not budging. I guess not giving in is worth the risk of not renting their places. Is asking 30% off too much to ask?

[nothintolose]

We LOVE Estate Lindholm!!! If the villas are too expensive and EL is booked, check out St. John Inn or Inn at Tamarind Court as a place to sleep at night and not much more.

[toes in the sand]

I too believe it doesn't hurt to ask politely for any discounts or promotions. (Hey, if it will get me back to the island any quicker I am all for it!) I imagine that the villa owners and management companies don't mind the free press they are getting on this forum but I doubt if they appreciate any public discussion of reduced rates or discounts that they have privately negotiated with clients. I just feel that if I get to enjoy a privately discounted rate that I should keep it private.
If villa owners dropped their published rates, they would have to raise their rates in the future just to get back to where they are now and of course their expenses are rising, not falling. Rising rates are never popular with their customers. So that leaves temporary discounts.

What I would like to see is some sort of airline discount from either the airlines or perhaps the USVI tourism board so that the bulk of my expenses can go on island instead of the pocket of AA. Hey, it would be nice if the USVI would just pick up my taxes and fees associated with my travel to the islands. My budget does not vary for a particular vacation so if I spend less getting there, it will allow more to be spent at local businesses.

[waterguy]

You might have better luck asking for discounts on prime season then summer season as alot of those prices are close to the break even point for the owners.

[Otters]

Herb nailed it. (or at least that's what I think, but I'm not as much an insider as the rest of you).

The thing is, there are fewer and fewer people with the means to travel. And all around us, travel destinations are cutting prices. We will end up spending close to $6k for the WEEK in St. John for 2 people, which is a splurge for us. We went to Antarctica and Argentina for 3 weeks last year for nearly the same price! Cruise deals abound, we could go to mexico for at least 1/2 the price of St. John. That's enough of a savings to change our destination in the future.

The *only* reason we're going is that this was a dream of mine and my partner's willing to indulge me. But if the prices stay high or there's not a good value to money ratio, we won't be back. St. John now isn't just competing with Aruba, Bermuda, it's competing with cruise ships, europe (as the $$ comes back in line with the Euro), Hawaii, Mexico, and the ski resorts near us who are cutting prices left and right, in short pretty much all other travel destinations.

Now, if the villa owners can afford to have houses sit empty--good for them. They have a right to charge what they wish. But based on what I saw on the BongoBongo blog, most likely they're dependent on regular rentals to pay that mortage. And given that we just booked a week ago, I saw a number of properties still available. Most likely what will happen is that the lower quality villas who haven't fixed up in a while will need to improve their properties to compete with the higher quality properties, or risk sitting empty.

Food prices. It's interesting. I just read an article that explained why food prices stateside are staying so high even though gas has dropped significantly. Turns out food companies bought a lot of high priced futures when commodity prices spiked about a year ago and we're still literally eating that.

Other ideas: 1. would be nice if I didn't have to pay to have someone hold a box or two for me. That way I could ship down and travel carry on--esp. coming from the West Coast. But by the time I pay for shipping and the holding fee--not worth it! 2). Offer first night provisioning in the cost of the rental--basic supplies for a fast dinner and coffee/muffins for the first morning. 3) include some maid service midweek on all properties.

just sayin'......

[Greenskeeper]

My husband had a conversation with a very smart business owner on STJ. He was telling my husband how many people on island said "the economy hasn't hurt them yet". His response to them: NOT YET, but many vacations had been booked already and people did not want to lost deposits etc. The crush is coming and he predicted it would start with the off season.

We questioned if we rebooked before we left for 2010, if we could get a better rate on the villa we were in. The villa manager said "no" but promised to email the information on another property she represented that would be offering discounts.

[Otters]

another thing I should have mentioned earlier.

Sorry for getting all economics geeky, but I can't help it.

The wildcard is, "how elastic is the demand for st. john." In other words, how many of the St. John crowd on this board will ONLY vacation there, regardless of the price differential between STJ and other vacation destinations.

If the answer is most of them, then prices will remain high. However, judging from the posts I read here, which is probably not a statistically valid sample, most people don't seem price insensitive, even for somewhere as great as St. John. Most people will at least consider another place if the price is half. The merchants and owners on STJ should take note of that--from a customer service perspective if nothing else. They need to make sure the experience stays amazing, because that would be the *only* thing that would enable villa owners to continue to charge a premium.

I mean, if you can go to another caribbean island or Mexico or Hawaii for half the price or less, is that the tipping point that would drive some of you diehards away from STJ?

[Betty]

I have debated answering to this post because of the wide differing of opinions on this subject. But I guess it would not hurt to tell my story since the owner is now advertising on Craigslist the price he gave us in high season.
We rented a villa in January and offered the rental company summer rates for high season, they said they would contact the owner. and let us know. the owner immediately accepted our offer through the management company.
February 5 I saw that he is now offering the villa on Craigslist for offseason prices for any open week he has left this high season. I think he is a smart business man, any money coming in is better than none during a vacant week. Also it is not more expensive to run a villa in the winter months as none of us needed A/C in January. This is just my story and my opinion.

[Lulu76]

We're not going in 2009. And the only reason I went in 2008 was because it would've cost more to not go because we'd paid our deposits months before. We're booked for 2010, but the place we're staying has a very good cancellation policy. I made sure of that before I booked the trip because everything is so up in the air. And really, the only reason I am planning to go is because I want to do 8 Tuff Miles.

I haven't ever said this here, and I'm sure if I'm wrong someone will correct me. But it's my understanding (I've never been in high season before)that the climate in St. John doesn't really change and stays pretty even throughout the year. Yeah, there is hurricane season in late-summer, early-fall, but aside from that, it's pretty much the same.

So, if that's the case, why are there even high and low season rates? Just to rip off those of us who live in cold places. It's not like it costs more to run your house in December than it does in May. It's not like North Carolina where it's too cold to go in the ocean if you go in low season.

I don't know. I guess it'd be nice if more villa owners/rental companies just charged the same rate across the board. I know some do, because that's how we can afford to go during high season next year. I still haven't ironed out the Jeep rental and things like that yet. But I've never really understood the concept of an off-season there. I usually go then because it's lower priced, and there are less crowds, so maybe it's just supply and demand.

But I'm thinking demand's going to dry up. After reading that article on the other thread, it sounds like it has already started.

[waterguy]

Lulu

It is all supply and demand more people want to go in the winter then the summer. It is actually more expensive to run the villas in the summer because AC use goes up and wapa bills are nuts. Most villas run in the red that is why I don't own one I've checked. The owners are trying to make it on their high season rentals. When I checked management companies took between 30 and 40%. Then you have to pay the wapa, loan payments, maintenance,and gardener and the water deliveries . It is cheaper to rent for me

[Otters]

Lulu

It is all supply and demand more people want to go in the winter then the summer. It is actually more expensive to run the villas in the summer because AC use goes up and wapa bills are nuts. Most villas run in the red that is why I don't own one I've checked. The owners are trying to make it on their high season rentals. When I checked management companies took between 30 and 40%. Then you have to pay the wapa, loan payments, maintenance,and gardener and the water deliveries . It is cheaper to rent for me

A sure sign that St. John had its own bubble. I know the mentality because it's the same here in SF. (Sound familiar? "oh everyone wants to live here so housing prices can only go up.").

Hearing about ceasing construction also tips me off that STJ was being invaded by speculators. What that means is that if the value of STJ declines (it's already starting here in the Bay Area, supposedly "immune") then what you'll see is villa owners cutting prices drastically as they try not to lose the house outright; followed by sales or even foreclosures on the properties themselves.

Either way, I predict a decline in rental costs either in terms of actual price reductions; or more value inserted to justify the cost.

[jmq]

And all around us, travel destinations are cutting prices. We will end up spending close to $6k for the WEEK in St. John for 2 people, which is a splurge for us. We went to Antarctica and Argentina for 3 weeks last year for nearly the same price! Cruise deals abound, we could go to mexico for at least 1/2 the price of St. John. That's enough of a savings to change our destination in the future.

But if the prices stay high or there's not a good value to money ratio, we won't be back. St. John now isn't just competing with Aruba, Bermuda, it's competing with cruise ships, europe (as the $$ comes back in line with the Euro), Hawaii, Mexico, and the ski resorts near us who are cutting prices left and right, in short pretty much all other travel destinations…

The wildcard is, "how elastic is the demand for st. john." In other words, how many of the St. John crowd on this board will ONLY vacation there, regardless of the price differential between STJ and other vacation destinations.

If the answer is most of them, then prices will remain high. However, judging from the posts I read here, which is probably not a statistically valid sample, most people don't seem price insensitive, even for somewhere as great as St. John.

Otters makes some great points in the selected quotes above. Seems like there are plenty of folks who have been to STJ many times and will continue to do go back no matter what the cost. Nothing at all wrong with that. For those that “get it”, it is indeed a special place that calls you back. And there is something to be said for knowing what to expect and to even to become “expert” about a vacation destination.

That said, there other parts of the world we want to expose our daughter to and experience before we get too old. After two consecutive trips to STJ, we were pretty astonished when we did our 8 night trip to Switzerland in May 2007 for $5500, staying in above average places in great locations.

It showed us you can go almost anywhere for what it costs (or less) to go to STJ in season (disclaimer: I saved $1200 vs. a quote from a travel agent by booking the Swiss trip myself, but then again I haven’t used a travel agent since one tried to talk us out of going to Cancun on our honeymoon in 1981 because she had not heard of it). It was our first trip to Europe, and we got bit pretty good by that bug too so we really want to go back. Northern Italy and the Greek Isles are no. 1 and 1a on the list.

We did squeeze in another trip to the islands 8 months ago, to Virgin Gorda and Anegada because it was better bang for the buck than STJ, not to mention how unbelievably nice everybody in the BVI seems to be. Plus, that’s more how we roll – we don’t like the same old same old, and like to see a lot when we do travel to a locale.

This winter has sucked big time not having a trip planned to the islands to get us through it and we do dream of and do want to go back to STJ.

But in the good old non-recession days, it didn’t seem like such the splurge it seems like now. Right now we are going to hunker down and wait to see if we get through this year with our jobs intact. However, if the prices do not adjust to the economic reality of the times, as much as we love it, I’m not sure if we’ll be back - there may be too many other places that may offer a better bang for the buck.

[Teresa_Rae]

Reviving the thread here.

We're hoping to make our 7th annual trip to STJ this year, but my husband's income has been substantially hit by the economy so if it's going to happen we're going to have to do it more cheaply than usual.

I've been doing a lot of villa searching over the past few days and I've been noticing some trends. A LOT of places are offering discounts. I've seen them for as far out as October. And not surprisingly, the villas that are the most booked are the ones that are offering discounts. There are two villas that I'm particularly interested in that aren't offering discounts so I emailed about them and was told no by both.

For one villa I asked if there were any special rates for the summer and this is what I got back:
The villa has reasonable summer rates - $260/night for a party of 2.
We do not discount until 30 days out.

I knew what the rate was before I asked and I think it's too high for that villa. There are comparable villas to that one that are going for closer to $200 a night, so I'll just rent one of them instead. I had mentioned that we’d be looking at June or July and this villa is only booked for 5 days in June and 1 day in July, and no other days for the rest of the year. It just doesn't make sense to me that they'd be abiding by the usual "no discounts until 30 days out" rule.