usvi-on-line
ciguatera in local fish?
ciguatera in local fish?
I have a question about eating the local fish. I hired an in-shore fishing guide one day who told me not to eat the local fish because they contain large amounts of ciguatera. A quick search on the internet revealed some very nasty facts about this disease. Have you ever heard of it? Apparently ciguatera is a disease that affects tropical fish that eat coral or eat other coral fish or their eggs. I've wanted to go down to the docs when I come in town and buy some fish from the local fisherman to cook back at my rental villa, but now that I've read about ciguatera, I'm afraid of this idea. What can you tell me about this?
I've forgotten the guide's name who told me about this but his license tag on his SUV said "Cupcake". Not kidding.
I've forgotten the guide's name who told me about this but his license tag on his SUV said "Cupcake". Not kidding.
Russ
yes, ciguatera is quite common here, and it is very nasty indeed.
I've not heard of many cases in recent years, and that probably says a lot about people being more aware and cautious-- that includes commercial fishermen.
My general rule is to avoid reef fish caught off the south side of the island, especially anything high on the food chain...barracuda, grouper, etc.
Open ocean fish, which is what you can generally get these days in Cruz Bay, is generally fine. Others may have more recent input.
I've not heard of many cases in recent years, and that probably says a lot about people being more aware and cautious-- that includes commercial fishermen.
My general rule is to avoid reef fish caught off the south side of the island, especially anything high on the food chain...barracuda, grouper, etc.
Open ocean fish, which is what you can generally get these days in Cruz Bay, is generally fine. Others may have more recent input.
RE: Ciguatera
Thanks for the reply Hugo. Is it true that it can not be cooked out of fish? Is it also true that once you have it, you will always have it?
So you would say that it is safe to buy fish like Tuna and Amberjack from the local fishermen in Cruz Bay?
So you would say that it is safe to buy fish like Tuna and Amberjack from the local fishermen in Cruz Bay?
Russ
Wow, this is fascinating. I love reading about this kind of stuff.
I just read the CDC website.
I don't think I will change my habits, but it is good to know the symptoms as it appears there are ways to manage the disease, especially if caught early.
On the website it actually documented cases from DC and Vermont with fish imported from Mexico (I think) so basically it could potentially "happen" anywhere.
Good question about fish at the docks, though...hmmm. (We never seem to see anyone at the dock anyway.
) Maybe that is good?
It still sounds like it is quite rare. I am sure if it happened to you though you would think it was a very big deal!
Now we know about this and the grouper worms. Grouper is definitely going lower on the list.
I just read the CDC website.
I don't think I will change my habits, but it is good to know the symptoms as it appears there are ways to manage the disease, especially if caught early.
On the website it actually documented cases from DC and Vermont with fish imported from Mexico (I think) so basically it could potentially "happen" anywhere.
Good question about fish at the docks, though...hmmm. (We never seem to see anyone at the dock anyway.
) Maybe that is good?It still sounds like it is quite rare. I am sure if it happened to you though you would think it was a very big deal!
Now we know about this and the grouper worms. Grouper is definitely going lower on the list.
"Sponges grow in the ocean...I wonder how much deeper it would be if that didn't happen."
-
chicagoans
- Posts: 1586
- Joined: Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:51 pm
- Location: IL
I know I have mentioned on this forum before that John's aunt used to live in Jamaica and she, along with most of her staff, got horrible ciguatera from eating barbecued barracuda. She was ill for about a year, lost a ton of weight, etc. It was really terrible for her.
I usually see tuna for sale at the docks, and my understanding is that the tuna, as well as the mahi, is always safe to eat. I have always assumed that the grouper in the restaurants is flown in from somewhere else--not locally caught. I could be wrong!
I usually see tuna for sale at the docks, and my understanding is that the tuna, as well as the mahi, is always safe to eat. I have always assumed that the grouper in the restaurants is flown in from somewhere else--not locally caught. I could be wrong!
It's like looking in your soup and finding a whole different alphabet.
Ciguatera is caused by eating fish that feed on fish that feed on coral reefs that are dead or dying. You can just as easily get ciguatera from grouper as you can barracuda.
I live in the Turks & Caicos Islands and have been eating the fish here for 20 years. The locals say the same thing about the fish caught on the north side of the islands rather than the south. I know here that there is a lot more sediment on the south sides and perhaps that affects the coral reefs? I'm only guessing at that.
Also, I have had ciguatera. It is a neuro-toxin that can affect you in many different ways. The neuro-toxin, from what I understand, does not leave your body and can be cumulative. I had symptoms for about three months 11 years ago and have never had a problem since.
It started a day or so after I ate the fish - I'm not sure because I eat a lot of fish. First, I had this insane itching on the palms of my hands and the soles of my feet. And I mean INSANE!! I couldn't sleep... I couldn't concentrate on anything.. all I could was scratch myself raw. That lasted for about five days and is very typical of most ciguatera cases.
For the next few months, I would wake up in the morning experiencing a new joint pain. It was always symmetrical - that is, both knees would hurt one day, both elbows would hurt the next day and so on. It's amazing how many joints the human body has!! I was back in the States during this time and was never diagnosed with ciguatera. It wasn't until much later that we discovered that's what I had.
There are supposedly tests out there that you can use on the fish. I never have. I understand they're very expensive. I continue to eat fish but I do stay away from barracuda and I shy away from grouper although I've had it from time to time with no issue. I do eat lots and lots of mahi, wahoo, tuna, mackerel and snapper though.
I live in the Turks & Caicos Islands and have been eating the fish here for 20 years. The locals say the same thing about the fish caught on the north side of the islands rather than the south. I know here that there is a lot more sediment on the south sides and perhaps that affects the coral reefs? I'm only guessing at that.
Also, I have had ciguatera. It is a neuro-toxin that can affect you in many different ways. The neuro-toxin, from what I understand, does not leave your body and can be cumulative. I had symptoms for about three months 11 years ago and have never had a problem since.
It started a day or so after I ate the fish - I'm not sure because I eat a lot of fish. First, I had this insane itching on the palms of my hands and the soles of my feet. And I mean INSANE!! I couldn't sleep... I couldn't concentrate on anything.. all I could was scratch myself raw. That lasted for about five days and is very typical of most ciguatera cases.
For the next few months, I would wake up in the morning experiencing a new joint pain. It was always symmetrical - that is, both knees would hurt one day, both elbows would hurt the next day and so on. It's amazing how many joints the human body has!! I was back in the States during this time and was never diagnosed with ciguatera. It wasn't until much later that we discovered that's what I had.
There are supposedly tests out there that you can use on the fish. I never have. I understand they're very expensive. I continue to eat fish but I do stay away from barracuda and I shy away from grouper although I've had it from time to time with no issue. I do eat lots and lots of mahi, wahoo, tuna, mackerel and snapper though.
Hello LaGringa!
I have been reading your site for a long time. You two seem to do a lot of fishing!
We actually parked next to you at the Provo airport in June but I was afraid you would think I was a weirdo if I approached you. (I recognized the Rover and your gringo from your blog)
For anyone looking for a very interesting island living blog, check out their site.
I have been reading your site for a long time. You two seem to do a lot of fishing!
We actually parked next to you at the Provo airport in June but I was afraid you would think I was a weirdo if I approached you. (I recognized the Rover and your gringo from your blog)
For anyone looking for a very interesting island living blog, check out their site.
Thanks PA Girl! Glad you enjoy it. I don't want to derail this thread too much but I have to admit that we've been approached by several blog readers and it IS kind of weird! We're not exactly difficult to find in this small country. The thing is, our readers know a lot about us but we don't know anything about them! Gringo was even approached while he and his son were out boating offshore!!!
Oh.. and that June I was actually heading to Pittsburgh to visit my family! I guess you could say I'm a PA Girl as well!
Oh.. and that June I was actually heading to Pittsburgh to visit my family! I guess you could say I'm a PA Girl as well!
The toxin is usually in the bones and towards the head of the fish. If you fillet the fish, you should be okay as well as the fact that the toxin builds in the individual's body, so each one is affected at a different time based on the built up toxin in your body. It's like the straw that broke the camel's back, when the toxin gets to the point in your body that it's too much, you suffer the consequences. I too have had it and will continue to eat fish from anywhere. No big deal!
RL 
This is a big topic of discussion for Bahamas travelers. Learned about it when we planned our Abacos trip last year. One forum member had returned from the Abacos, with the classic symptoms of reversed senses of hot & cold. She had it for nearly a year!
From what I gathered, its more of a problem w/ fish taken in shallow waters & reefs, rather than deep waters. So tuna, as an example, shouldn't be a concern. Snapper would be a little iffy.
From what I gathered, its more of a problem w/ fish taken in shallow waters & reefs, rather than deep waters. So tuna, as an example, shouldn't be a concern. Snapper would be a little iffy.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29392319/
This story was posted today on msnbc.com on Grouper making people sick.
Thought it was interesting since I was reading about here last week.
This story was posted today on msnbc.com on Grouper making people sick.
Thought it was interesting since I was reading about here last week.
Noticed that same article. Good one for people to read. Amazing how many cases simply go undetected/unreported.DCphoto wrote:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29392319/
This story was posted today on msnbc.com on Grouper making people sick.
Thought it was interesting since I was reading about here last week.