The other 800lb Gorilla in the campaign is SAD

[loria]

And not because she is a woman, there are MANY moderate republican women who are more than qualified to be a VP nom.

If she were pro-life, you might consider her moderate, right?

It's funny that republican women must be "moderate" to pass your sniff test. Would you consider Hillary Clinton "moderate"?

Dude, in the scale of things the Clintons are quite centrist..... and you still didn;t answer my question (unless i missed something.....)

[Terry]

I know that news travels from East to West, but what's this I heard today that the McCain Campaign has all but thrown in the towel?

[David- n Hampton, VA]

Ditto --- everything Toes in the sand said.

(If I were smarter....maybe I could have said it first.)

[toes in the sand]

Ditto --- everything Toes in the sand said.

(If I were smarter....maybe I could have said it first.)

Not smarter, just quicker

[jmq]

If I remember, the original question was the importance of age is in the election of a president. The poster then goes on to question the qualifications of Governor Palin. What I see missing here is the same question of Senator Obama who is at the TOP of the democratic ticket.
Can you give me a list of bills he has authored in the US senate?
Can you narrow that list to bills authored by the senator that were passed in the US senate?
Can you give examples of executive experience?
Can you tell me how many days the esteemed senator from Illinois has actually spent in the chair he was elected to?
Can you enumerate the absent or no votes from Mr Obama?
Can you relate to me the how his resume' is somehow better or equal than either John McCains or Sarah Palins?
Lest you forget, the democratic candidate for PRESIDENT has about the same time in government office as the VICE presidential candidate for the republicans. Do you really want discuss experience?

Toes – all legitimate questions about Obama. Much more so than a lot of the hypocritical troll crap that flies around here and the Swift Boat stuff coming out of the McCain campaign. Questions that I certainly considered.

But you know, I came to peace with the inexperience factor and some of the other weaknesses listed because this choice slowly became about the temperament and intellectual vigor that Obama brings to the table, two things that many think have been sorely lacking in the White House for the last 8 years. I’ve had just about enough of the “governing from the gut” style that I can take and I think that McCain and Palin will bring us more of that. And Cheney and Rumsfeld certainly have certainly proven that experience can be overrated.

Obama also appears to have other qualities that can make him an effective leader – like empathy, great communication skills, plus he seems like someone who will listen to differing opinions and who can actually admit a mistake and learn from it.

His he a somewhat risky choice? Maybe. But good risk can yield great reward –something I am familiar with because of what I do for a living.

I am responsible for risk selection and risk management within a large property/casualty insurance company. I evaluate companies to help us decide what and who we should insure and at what price, and then work with them to identify weaknesses and implement improvements. Companies of all sizes, ranging from Under Armour, Coca Cola and Revlon to the local contractor with a dozen employees. I specialize in Workers Comp and Product Liability.

The evaluation process involves both quantitative and qualitative assessments. A huge part of the part of the process is evaluating loss potential, management leadership, management accountability, and management expertise.

There are things you can tell when you interview the person in the corner office, then the plant manager, then the supervisor, then the person doing the actual work. You develop a sense of what kind of culture is running through the company and whether or not they see the big picture, and if they understand their exposures and what they need to do to control them so they can remain profitable and competitive.

Doing this for 20+ years, you cant help but develop a sense of what kind of management styles work and what kinds don’t. And I think that Barack Obama posseses the skill sets needed to be an effective manager/leader of this country.

OK then! Risk Management lecture over – time to wake up. Just ask George Costanza about it if you have any questions!

[toes in the sand]

The Lugar-Obama initiative will help other nations find and eliminate conventional weapons that have been used against our own soldiers in Iraq and sought by terrorists all over the world," said Obama.

Did we really need these guys to work on this kind of legislation? Maybe Obama should be cutting the grass over there at congress to earn his keep.

Obama went against his word to use public funding for his campaign and has bought the biggest megaphone in the history of US politics. He basically lied to us all.

The Lugar-Obama bill was basically an expansion of Lugar-Nunn. From what I have read it appears to be a good initiative to find and remove weapons of both mass destruction and smaller weapons and materials used to attack both military targets and civilians. I have not found enough information to decide if it has produced results or how much $$$ have gone to the former USSR to buy up WMDs.

OK thats one bill. Any other legislation authored by the democratic candidate for president?

As far as deciding to not use public funds after telling us that he would, well I have seen far worse "lies" in the world of politics. Not a deal killer for me.
I am still waiting for his report card as an elected public official though. There are enough of his supporters out here. Surely there is more than one bill.
Convince me that he has the experience to lead my country to peace and prosperity.

[DELETED]

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[toes in the sand]

jmq
While I am sure you are great at the job you do, I will make my own judgement on whom I cast my vote for.
As far as your statement "Obama also appears to have other qualities that can make him an effective leader – like empathy, great communication skills, plus he seems like someone who will listen to differing opinions and who can actually admit a mistake and learn from it."
I agree, good qualities to have, especially for someone who lacks experience. Good qualities for a man who has much to learn. Unfortunately it is not enough for me to have an eloquent speaker as president. I want someone who has seen the pitfalls. Learned from mistakes, his and those around him or her. I also want someone who has similar values as I do. John McCain shares some of the same qualities that you mention, empathy, someone who listens to differing opinions, someone who can admit a mistake and learn from it. He also is not poll driven. When was the last time you heard Mr. Obama speak words that you really did not want to hear but knew were true?

Still not onboard with Obama/Biden. Anyone else going to convince me?

One more thing, when speaking to me, please leave out the hypocritical crap yourself. I want to only to respectfully discuss the candidates, their positions, their promises, experience or any other qualifications that make them worthy of my consideration.

[jmq]

Hey Vicki – sorry you got hit with some collateral fire in this thread. Happens sometimes when we are too quick with a quip and you wind up hurting someone’s feeling (been there, done that) or being the last straw that breaks a camels back.

You know, I must confuse the hell out of poor Linne with all my wacky metaphors, including the title of this thread.
JMQ

[jmq]

Toes - not trying to convince you, just sharing some of the thought process I went through. Again, you make some valid points and I respect your views. And, believe it or not, I could’ve voted for the 2000 McCain. But it seems like he has changed too much.

His age and cancer would be much less of an issue for a lot of folks if he picked someone more qualified or who had some of the qualities that Obama has AND didnt seem to share some of the "qualities" that GW Bush has. He has been too erratic and impulsive, and has run a poorly managed campaign. His current style (and policy content) reminds me too much of Bush, and I don’t think we can afford another 4-8 yrs of that. Plus his admitted weakness is the economy – not something we need right now. I tend to agree with others who are questioning his judgment re selection of Palin.

And when he says stuff like his campaign only went negative because Obama didn’t agree to X number of town hall debates:
Does he:
a. expect us to believe that? (insulting)
b. Does he really believe that? (scary)
c. indicate that he will be willing to say anything to get elected (sad)

As for being hypocritical, not sure what you are referring to, but if its about the Palin/Obama experience thing, I only used the quotes from prominent conservatives that questioned her qualifications.

Obama went through the same questioning of qualifications thing from pundits and even fellow Democrats during the primaries and still does on a daily basis. I’m sure there are tons of quotes also from his own side out there about that.

I think we are like minded in that the legitmate concerns about both side deserves discourse (like McCain's age and health when combined with his VP pick and Obama's experience), but when it goes off into baseless and spurious stuff, that just wastes everbodys time, ticks people off, and clouds the issues.

Why some folks here and the McCain campaign itself doesnt get that is beyond me. We can only hope that the failure of this strategy portends the end of Swift Boating as a primary campaign tactic.

[AnyTing]

Hey Vicki – sorry you got hit with some collateral fire in this thread. Happens sometimes when we are too quick with a quip and you wind up hurting someone’s feeling (been there, done that) or being the last straw that breaks a camels back.

Don't you worry about me, JMQ. No hurt feelings here. My life requires me to have a pretty thick skin. I just wanted to point out that there is a big difference in making an intelligent statement about why you think someone is not qualified to be Vice President versus tossing out comments like "Governor Barbie" and not having "two brain cells to rub together" when referencing a woman who is successful with regard to her current accomplishments. It sounded a lot less like thoughtful and intelligent commentary and a lot more like mean girls snickering in the back of the classroom to me.

I don't think it was a case of anyone trying to be unkind. I simply think there are several on here who are very passionate about these topics and sometimes that kind of passion can cause one to get a little carried away.

As for the straw that broke the camel's back, you might have something there. I have always been drawn to this forum for the personalities here. After 10 trips to St. John, I really don't need the information. There are many people that I have enjoyed in the past that I truly have a different perspective of now, a less than positive perspective. Don't get me wrong, which side you sit on makes no difference to me. What has changed things for me is the tone and tenor that many of you have displayed here. I have seen many comments that serve no legitimate purpose other than to inflame, incite, and upset the individuals on the other side of the issue. I have seen quite a bit that I would not describe as intelligent or thoughtful. I have seen a lot of disrespect for the other person's values. It is one thing to express what you support about your candidate of choice. It is entirely another to do no more than continually demean and pull down the other side. I have seen a lot more of the latter than the former in these discussions.

Why not just ignore the political threads? Because I WANT to know more about the people here. It's simple human nature. Like I said, it's about the interaction, not the information, that brings me here.

That said, I think I'll take a vacation from this place. I recommend many of you do the same, you seem like you need it.

My sincere hope is that after the election, those of you that have expressed so much disdain for the opposing view will put your political party aside and remember that we are ONE nation and we should all be united behind our president, whoever he is. It will be very disheartening to see a continuation of the backbiting, the snide remarks, and blogs that do nothing but criticize the viewpoint that is not yours. I did not vote for Barack Obama, however, if he is elected, I will see him as MY president and he will have all of the respect and support from me that the President deserves. I will pray every day that he is protected and that God gives him the wisdom to make the best possible choices for our nation.

For our country's sake, I sincerely hope we can all do that.

[flip-flop]

Vicki - my apologies to you and to her and to all women for my statement that I find her not without "two brain cells to rub together".

It was wrong of me to stoop to that level. I shouldn't have. You are right there is enough substance to debate without going there.

I found myself all in a lather over Lulu being accused of disliking her cause she was prettier. Especially when it was coming from someone saying age was unethical to discuss.

I got sucked in, I should have chosen my words more wisely. I undermined my own argument with my "gut" reaction.

[Lulu76]

I just want to apologize if I offended anyone here. That was not my intention. I'm not apologizing for my politics, because I'm proud of who I am, but I guess I let my passion get in the way of good common sense and manners.

I've got lots of work to do so that I can go on my trip next week, so I just wanted to thank you all for listening to my inane questions about reservations, carry-ons and such. I appreciate all your help, and I'm sorry if I've bothered you.

[toes in the sand]

I have lurked in most of the political threads on the OT forum. I have lightly participated in some. I see much in the way of complaints about the way some thrust their points across the table. I see calls for civility and respect. But yet, I respectfully ask for a few simple qualifications of the democratic candidate and I get but a few weak responses. I am left to two conclusions.

1)No one here can list more than one bill authored by Mr. Obama.
2)No one really wishes to have a discussion on the subject.

Now since I see much in the way of disrespectful discussion elsewhere, I can only guess that no one really wants a respectful discussion of facts.

[Lulu76]

I'll be honest with you. I think Barack Obama has spent his entire time in the United States Senate campaigning for president. Yet, he's still managed to vote more times than John McCain has over the last year or so. Not many more times, but they're both guilty of that. Also, junior senators don't get to make a lot of legislation. I worked for a U.S. Congressman, and I think he was in office maybe six, eight years before he sponsored a bill. Why? Because people with more seniority can get more people to sign on to their bills. They know more people. So, if I'm new to the Senate and Ted Kennedy and I both support legislation, we're putting Ted's name on the bill first.

I am not a big Obama fan. I am not sure what exactly he is promising when he spouts off about "change." I do know, however, that any change is better than what we have now. So, rather than get four or eight more years of failed policies that, frankly, our country can't afford right now, I am chosing to go with the unknown rather than what we know. Yeah, it's probably a risky choice, but I'd rather take Obama's risks than McCain's.

Until we fix our extremely flawed system, we're always going to have to choose between the lesser of two evils. It's also best to realize that none of these people will actually execute any of their campaign promises, anyhow.