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Another Political Question
Another Political Question
I figured a new thread was better than trying to figure out where this question fits in one of the other ones.
Does anyone (on either side of the debate or in the middle) have theories as to why so many conservative republicans are throwing McCain under the bus? I know why I don't care for him, but I can't remember this much dissention in the ranks pre-election in the past.
This is a serious question, not a gotcha. I am genuinely curious.
Does anyone (on either side of the debate or in the middle) have theories as to why so many conservative republicans are throwing McCain under the bus? I know why I don't care for him, but I can't remember this much dissention in the ranks pre-election in the past.
This is a serious question, not a gotcha. I am genuinely curious.
I think there are probably several reasons.The biggest reason I see is that fr many years, McCain fought against the GOP base on my issues. All the times he crossed the aisles, he enraged many of his Republican party members. While he voted more frequently with the GOP, but I think his history may have hurt him.
While McCain has done a lot to cater to his base in recent months (e.g., Palin, voting with the party), I think there are many on the far right that don't think he is far enough right - they want a Huckabee or Rommney. I think that some are hoping he loses so that the GOP can put up someone more in line with their thinking in 2012.
I am nervous, too. Very nervous. I have refrained from jumping in these threads, but I have been reading them. My vote doesn't matter in Illinois, but it's not going to stop me from trying.
While McCain has done a lot to cater to his base in recent months (e.g., Palin, voting with the party), I think there are many on the far right that don't think he is far enough right - they want a Huckabee or Rommney. I think that some are hoping he loses so that the GOP can put up someone more in line with their thinking in 2012.
I am nervous, too. Very nervous. I have refrained from jumping in these threads, but I have been reading them. My vote doesn't matter in Illinois, but it's not going to stop me from trying.
One of the reasons I'm voting McCain is that he is moderate.
Conservative republicans don't like that.
Liberal democrats wouldn't be too happy if Obama started to meet in the middle either.
That's way they are called extremists.
And it's one of the reason's I'm voting republican- McCain- for the first time in my life.
Conservative republicans don't like that.
Liberal democrats wouldn't be too happy if Obama started to meet in the middle either.
That's way they are called extremists.
And it's one of the reason's I'm voting republican- McCain- for the first time in my life.
I would agree with Laura's thoughts.
McCain simply isn't a conservative, as one is traditionally defined. He likes to talk about being a foot soldier in the Reagan revolution, but he's no Reagan.
And, it's pretty well established that in the past, he has done many things to put simply, irratate conservatives. Whether it be working with Kennedy on immigration (amnesty), or Feingold on campaign finance reform. It's funny that it may be that bill that ends up killing his chances at the whitehouse. With Obama going back on his word that he would accept public financing (lets get used to him going back on is words), and McCain sticking to his, that put Mac in a tough spot with the new restrictions on public financing.
McCain simply isn't a conservative, as one is traditionally defined. He likes to talk about being a foot soldier in the Reagan revolution, but he's no Reagan.
And, it's pretty well established that in the past, he has done many things to put simply, irratate conservatives. Whether it be working with Kennedy on immigration (amnesty), or Feingold on campaign finance reform. It's funny that it may be that bill that ends up killing his chances at the whitehouse. With Obama going back on his word that he would accept public financing (lets get used to him going back on is words), and McCain sticking to his, that put Mac in a tough spot with the new restrictions on public financing.
July 2003 - Honeymoon at The Westin
July 2004 - Glenmar, Gifft Hill
July 2005 - Arco Iris, Fish Bay
December 2007 - Dreamcatcher, GCB
July 2008 - Ellison Villa, VGE
July 2004 - Glenmar, Gifft Hill
July 2005 - Arco Iris, Fish Bay
December 2007 - Dreamcatcher, GCB
July 2008 - Ellison Villa, VGE
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bayer40601
- Posts: 612
- Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:06 pm
- Location: Kentucky
The irony is every time they move in that direction, their numbers go down. That's part of what I meant in my post in the other thread about their messages and their messengers being old, tired, worn out and recycled.think the Rep. party thinks he has not been tough enough on hitting Obama with the issues of Rev Wright, Tony Rezco, Acorn and all the other questionable reletionships Obama has had in his past which are relivant to his character
At some point, Conservative Republicans are going to have to learn they have to go back to the issues. The politics of personal destruction is not going to work from the same people in every election.
By the way, what worries me about the Republicans and this Country is there appears to be a number of people who really do like Gov. Palin as a potential leader of this Country. Given her performance and obvious lack of real knowledge about the issues in this campaign, that is really scary.
How many more days?
Not a deflection at all, SJ. Just an honest to goodness question. I started a new thread because I didn't want it to get lost in 30+ pages of other backs and forths about a million other topics.SJfromNJ wrote:
Nice deflection Flip, you took the heat off yourself from the war topic on Joges thread.
Is that what I am doing over on the other thread, "taking heat" ... I thought we were just teasing out inconsistencies on both sides. Or can you not see inconsistency unless it is in your opponent?
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bayer40601
- Posts: 612
- Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:06 pm
- Location: Kentucky
Also one of George Carlin’s golden rules of comedy – you can get away with being especially harsh when speaking of your own kind (white Irish Catholic) and that Chris Rock certainly uses with his riffs on African Americans (“yeah – that’s right – I said it!”) and his rap in his latest HBO special on the use of the “N” word (who can use it and when).bayer40601 wrote:It's the same phenomenon you see in other settings, "We can beat up on our own, but don't you try to beat up on any of us."
Obama has said the he is a big Chris Rock fan. He was pretty funny on the Daily Show the other night when asked a follow up question about the Bradley Effect.
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When we come to place where the sea and the sky collide
Throw me over the edge and let my spirit glide
Throw me over the edge and let my spirit glide
I agree with Laura! And I've also heard more than once someone who isn't voting for McCain because of Palin. I honestly like her, but I don't think she's perfect. I have had one manager at one of my offices say that he won't vote for McCain because he chose a woman as a running mate. Yes, he's extremely sexist! I wonder how many true conservatives aren't ready for a woman VP or President?
I thought the other day how it would make things even more interesting if there was policy that if you were republican you had to choose a democrat as your VP and vice versa. I know....that would never come into being and would cause turmoil!
I thought the other day how it would make things even more interesting if there was policy that if you were republican you had to choose a democrat as your VP and vice versa. I know....that would never come into being and would cause turmoil!
Thanks for the responses. I kind of guessed that it was part Palin and part that McCain has, at times, been a thorn in the side of the Republicans.
I guess I just expected the defection and fingerpointing to start after the election if he lost, not before the election.
I truly am wondering if many of the prominent republicans who have come out against him, come out against Palin, or actually endorsed Obama, have done so because they think the party will be better off in the long run if he loses.
I guess I just expected the defection and fingerpointing to start after the election if he lost, not before the election.
I truly am wondering if many of the prominent republicans who have come out against him, come out against Palin, or actually endorsed Obama, have done so because they think the party will be better off in the long run if he loses.
I think at this point, they know 2008 isn't going to happen for them (before you jump me, go look at the maps. It's pretty much mathematically impossible for McCain to win. That being said, I've been through some interesting elections in my life and anything could happen.) But I think the Republicans have pretty much given up and are just trying to reposition themselves for next time.
I've been working with the Democratic party for many years, and Democrats are notorious for their in-fighting and losing sight of the bigger picture. I've always said the Republicans have won because while the Democrats are fighting each other, the Republicans are fighting the Democrats. I think we've seen a shift in that this year.
Several months ago, McCain looked electable. I even debated if I would choose his experience over Obama's. The problem is that in his effort to make the right wing of the GOP (who dislike him and didn't vote for him) happy, he has alienated his moderate base. I liked him when I voted for him in 2000. Now it's become apparent that he will sell himself to the highest bidder.
I said it would come down to VP choices. Obama HAD to pick someone who would make him stronger, and he did. McCain still could've won this race with one hand tied behind his back if he'd picked someone else. There is the whole sexism issue, there is the whole perceived lack of experience issue, and there is the issue that Sarah Palin is uber-conservative, and McCain had to get the moderate base.
You cannot win an election without the moderates in this country. Most of our voters are purely middle-of-the-road voters. Obama has played the game. Everyone accused him of changing his positions on issues, but the reality is the first thing I learned in my first class on campaigns was: you go as far as you can to the right or left in the primary, and then get back to the middle for the general election. He's still not a moderate, but I don't think McCain got back to the middle. I know he didn't, or I would vote for him.
I've been working with the Democratic party for many years, and Democrats are notorious for their in-fighting and losing sight of the bigger picture. I've always said the Republicans have won because while the Democrats are fighting each other, the Republicans are fighting the Democrats. I think we've seen a shift in that this year.
Several months ago, McCain looked electable. I even debated if I would choose his experience over Obama's. The problem is that in his effort to make the right wing of the GOP (who dislike him and didn't vote for him) happy, he has alienated his moderate base. I liked him when I voted for him in 2000. Now it's become apparent that he will sell himself to the highest bidder.
I said it would come down to VP choices. Obama HAD to pick someone who would make him stronger, and he did. McCain still could've won this race with one hand tied behind his back if he'd picked someone else. There is the whole sexism issue, there is the whole perceived lack of experience issue, and there is the issue that Sarah Palin is uber-conservative, and McCain had to get the moderate base.
You cannot win an election without the moderates in this country. Most of our voters are purely middle-of-the-road voters. Obama has played the game. Everyone accused him of changing his positions on issues, but the reality is the first thing I learned in my first class on campaigns was: you go as far as you can to the right or left in the primary, and then get back to the middle for the general election. He's still not a moderate, but I don't think McCain got back to the middle. I know he didn't, or I would vote for him.
[quote="Lulu76"]I think at this point, they know 2008 isn't going to happen for them (before you jump me, go look at the maps. It's pretty much mathematically impossible for McCain to win."
That is exactly what Obama wants everyone to believe. It is now being said that if the turnout is big McCann will win. Woo Hoo !!
Obama: "I will reduce your taxes if you make less than $250,000.
Obama: " less than $200,00"
Biden: "less than $150,000"
Bill Richardson - today: "Obama will reduce everyone's taxes who makes less than $125,000"
Pretty soon it will include everyone. Opps, I let the cat out of the bag.
That is exactly what Obama wants everyone to believe. It is now being said that if the turnout is big McCann will win. Woo Hoo !!
Obama: "I will reduce your taxes if you make less than $250,000.
Obama: " less than $200,00"
Biden: "less than $150,000"
Bill Richardson - today: "Obama will reduce everyone's taxes who makes less than $125,000"
Pretty soon it will include everyone. Opps, I let the cat out of the bag.
It would probably take me 100 years to make $125,000, so I'm not too worried. That's not a tree to bark up with me.
I am a political scientist. I have looked at every map out there and put together every scenario possible with the electoral college map. At current polling statistics, even taking into account the Bradley Effect, it is very highly unlikely that John McCain can get 270 electoral votes. Now, if there are shenanigans, and I'm sure there will be, then President McCain can drive our country into the ground for eight more years or until he dies, whichever comes first.
I don't believe anything because Obama tells me to. I have been playing the numbers game on election night for two decades now, and in 2004, I looked at the map and knew John Kerry couldn't win either, or Gore before him. I might vote Democratic, but I've studied this stuff and I'm smart enough to know to call it for whoever's actually winning.
I am a political scientist. I have looked at every map out there and put together every scenario possible with the electoral college map. At current polling statistics, even taking into account the Bradley Effect, it is very highly unlikely that John McCain can get 270 electoral votes. Now, if there are shenanigans, and I'm sure there will be, then President McCain can drive our country into the ground for eight more years or until he dies, whichever comes first.
I don't believe anything because Obama tells me to. I have been playing the numbers game on election night for two decades now, and in 2004, I looked at the map and knew John Kerry couldn't win either, or Gore before him. I might vote Democratic, but I've studied this stuff and I'm smart enough to know to call it for whoever's actually winning.