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[cypressgirl]

Good rant, CG!! As you know, I couldn't agree more.

I wonder who al Queda would like to see in the oval office. One thing is for sure.....the next week will be the safest week we've had since 9-11.

[loria]

actually, according to this, a website closely affiliated with al qaeda endorsed McCain.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/opini ... ef=opinion

[Teresa_Rae]

I was out of town for the weekend and look what I missed!

I've been trying to stay away from these topics but I have to make a few comments...

I was taught at an early age that it is good to share your toys. Others may not like to share...like a little kid they scream, "mine, mine...don't touch it...get your own."

If sharing is socialism...I'm a socialist. I'm okay with our government helping those who are less fortunate. In fact, I think that is an ideal that makes this country great.

Or how about parents just be good parents and teach their children to share? Why does the government have to get in the middle of it?

I share with friends and family, I share with strangers. I "share" lots of money with my church and other charities, and I even "share" my time for worthy causes. But that is my choice, and for the most part I do not think it is the government's right or responsibility to take my money and "share" it with others...I do it pretty well on my own, and so do millions of Americans. In fact I'd have a lot more money to "share" with others if the government would stop taking so much out of my paycheck. I also happen to think that individuals do a better job at "redistributing wealth" because they aren't doing it to buy votes.

References to infanticide are clearly to distort the issues rather than persuade others to a particular point of view.
JIM

Whether you agree that abortion is infanticide or not, that's not what he was talking about.

In 2002 Obama voted against the Induced Infant Liability Act, which would have protected babies that survived late-term abortions. That same year a similar federal law, the Born Alive Infant Protection Act, was signed by President Bush. Only 15 members of the U.S. House opposed it, and it passed the Senate unanimously on a voice vote.

When the federal bill was being debated, NARAL Pro-Choice America released a statement that said, "Consistent with our position last year, NARAL does not oppose passage of the Born Alive Infants Protection Act ... floor debate served to clarify the bill’s intent and assure us that it is not targeted at Roe v. Wade or a woman’s right to choose."

So yes, Obama supports infanticide and is more extreme on his views than NARAL Pro-Choice America.

Conservatives don't believe in a free press, fair elections, equal education, environmental protection, safe and affordable health care, equal rights for women, any of it.
So what do conservatives believe in?

I realized you've apologized since saying that, but as one of those "low-life" conservatives you referred to, I can say that you're wrong on all accounts, and I know exactly zero conservatives who would not agree with me. I don't have time to get into a big debate on everything you listed, but regarding free press, it isn't conservatives who want the so-called "Fairness Doctrine" and regarding fair elections, ACORN isn't exactly trying to throw the election in favor of John McCain. I also think it is more than a little suspect that Obama's website doesn't require name or address verification for credit cards, or that 3 digit code either...meaning that anyone in the world can give donations of any amount. McCain is listing all of his donors while Obama has an open door for donor fraud...talk about unfair elections!

You later said:

My mistake was not being more specific with the target of my tirade, meaning the extreme, narrow minded, right wingers that are soul mates of the Rush Limbaughs

I think most conservatives mostly agree with Rush Limbaugh, I know I do. Sure, he’s his own #1 fan and certainly acts too big for his britches and is outlandish at times, but I think he mostly does that to annoy people on the left. When you put aside the showmanship his show can have some pretty good content. And you'd be hard-pressed to convince anyone that Rush doesn't believe in free press. I can also tell you that for me personally when I stopped being narrow-minded I became a conservative.

Lastly…

I have some views ranging from gun control to capital punishment to Title 9 to even tax issues that are not generally accepted by many so called liberals.

Something we can agree on JT! While a state senator, Obama voted for a bill that would have banned nearly every hunting rifle, shotgun, and target rifle owned by law-abiding US citizens. That same bill would have authorized the state police to raid homes of gun owners to forcibly confiscate banned guns. Obama also voted four times against legislation that would allow a homeowner to use a firearm in defense of home and family.

Now that’s what I call extreme.

[Lulu76]

I just wanted to share that I donated money to Obama just a few days ago, and I did have to give information to verify that my credit card belonged to me. I just thought I'd offer a first-hand experience on that subject.

I have never tried to give money to McCain, so I cannot verify the security of his online giving process.

[flip-flop]

Case in point, Flip Flop and I disagree on pretty much every issue. However, she is my good buddy. How so? I respect her and feel her point of view is a product of her own life and is as valid to her as mine is to me. I don’t think I am superior or inferior to her in any way. We are simply different, and that is ok.

Some of you ought to try it on for size. It feels pretty good.

We agree that the cocoberry shake kicks a$#! Isn't that enough?

I love you and I appreciate your ability to make the peace.

Vicki is right she and I are ideological opposites but in getting to know one another we have found we are far more similar than we are different. I generally think that's the case. Move beyond the soundbites and that which divides and find what you can agree on. I learned to do this in my marriage and am much happier for it.

For the record, Vicki you are definitely the superior photographer. But I think I am the superior drinker, 6 painkillers my friend. Though Gromit puts us both to shame!

[soxfan22]

I just wanted to share that I donated money to Obama just a few days ago, and I did have to give information to verify that my credit card belonged to me. I just thought I'd offer a first-hand experience on that subject.

I have never tried to give money to McCain, so I cannot verify the security of his online giving process.

I believe she was referring to this:

http://uppitywoman08.wordpress.com/2008 ... nal-names/

I can give you 10 more examples if you'd like, but apparently your experience is much much different than everyone else's.

Or, maybe he's added more security checks in the last afew days since the "Della Ware" contribution was entered and made public...It's called moving the goalpost.


Sort of like how he just moved the goal post over the weekend on his tax threshold...Obama has always claimed that only the folks and businesses who made more than $250k would see and increase in their taxes...Well, over the weekend he changed it to $200k. Moving the goalpost. Get used to it. Soon it will be anybody over $100k.

The guy is a fraud.

[Pia]

I'm sorry Sox but I'm still waiting for you to answer my question please

Pia

[California Girl]

Yeah, it got mighty quiet, didn't it Pia?

[Nic in KC]

CG-you echo my sentiments exactly, but in my world of work, you call them undocumented or get yourself in trouble!

Flip-You made a good point about patriotism. I would never feel that you have to be a Christian to be patriotic and I'm right there with ya that some of the kindest, most giving people you'll ever meet aren't Christian and you'll find some of the biggest criminals, mean and nasty people in the world proclaiming to be Christian.

[David- n Hampton, VA]

Man! I haven't been on the forum in a while, come back and there are "other" forums linked...but I didn't look at them until today.

Look at all I have been missing!

Some people with really strong opinions and some people with great thoughts....and some people with the attitude that others can't have opinions.

Wow!

I am voting for McCain. Nope he isn't the best choice on the planet......but he is the best of the two running.

Lot's of stuff have been said on here about the pluses and minuses of each. I'll tell you Jorge started it out with a pretty fair description of where I have been......but for me.....McCain wins because I think Obama wants me to pay more for social welfare programs than I can afford......not whether or not the people receiving the benefits of that deserve it...that is a far different question.....(by the way, how many people on this thread ever walked through Caprini Green in Chicago and saw first hand the results of massive social welfare?? When it existed...I was an Operations Officer for the US Army Chicago Recruiting Battalion....try making a house call in there to get a parents signature on paperwork).

I am a US Army, Special Forces, Ranger, Airborne Infantryman....retired. Plus I was born in a Army hospital and have lived every day of my life associated with and closely aligned with the US Army. Having said that...I don’t know how I feel about Iraq. It is so costly in people...and so costly in dollars and I have been there (Middle East) and worked first hand with the people that live there. They generally do not like us….and have a stated policy to get rid of us because we do not have the same religion.

Long story short....if we never had to see or talk to a Middle Eastern person again as a nation....it would be a good thing. But that isn’t possible. So what is the best policy? Throw a few nucs over there and clean-em out? Become an isolationist nation assuming we can keep the bad people out by burying our collective heads in the sand? Ask them to “pretty please” be our neighbor and hope they will? Again I don’t know...but suspect that we will have to keep going back there to act like the global policeman for a very long time. I learned a long time ago that "hope" is not a plan. Maybe having a guy with a Arab sounding name would help....but I don’t think so. Look what those stupid people are doing to their own villages and marketplaces.

Anyway, I thought I would merely indicate how wonderful I think it is that we are all so energized by this election.....sure wish the right guys were running...(my opinion is that the right guys…..the ones that really are perfect for the job....can no longer afford to run....so we are left with the choices “big” political parties chose for us....and they pick them based on what the Party can get out of it). The whole system is broken. If Washington and Jefferson and Patrick Henry were here now they would have a fit.

[flip-flop]

Furthermore, my husband's family fled communist regimes twice in his lifetime. Once leaving everything they had to move from North to South Vietnam and finally leaving forevermore the day Saigon fell. His uncle, a teacher, was beaten beyond belief for his views.

His family worked themselves to the bone to rebuild their lives in America. He barely saw his parents as a child, getting himself up every morning and to school from the age of 6. They literally rebuilt their lives not once, but twice, having nothing but the clothes on their backs. His father grew a very successful business that fed, clothed and put 5 boys through college.

To insinuate that Obama is a socialist or a communist is insulting to those who have actually experienced a communist regime. Again its just angry, fear mongering rhetoric meant to win an election, not actually move this nation forward.

[California Girl]

in my world of work, you call them undocumented or get yourself in trouble!

Yeah (she said sighing!) that's what's so sad and so wrong. Thanks Nic!

[cypressgirl]

Thank you for your service, David!!

[verjoy]

I hope you all know that there were legal abortions prior to Roe V. Wade.

I have always been pro-life and prior to 1970 could not imagine abortion being justified.

An experience with a close friend convinced me that there are circumstances where abortion is the lesser of the evils.

Prior to sonograms and other diagnostic tests parents just accepted what God gave them.

I will spare you the details, but my friend had a fatal genetic illness in her family that was passed to the male children. Even after birth you just had to wait, perhaps for years, for symptoms to appear.

My friend's second child was a baby boy. Even though he looked fine, my friend was filled with anxiety (who could blame her). She had devastating post partum depression and delusions. She was normally very sweet, smart, nurturing, religious, and pro-life. She became convinced that she was pregnant again. This was practically impossible (she had a tubal ligation), but there was no reasoning with her. We also could not leave her alone with her own children. Think Andrea Yates.

The doctors told her she would have to have an abortion if she was pregnant. I was there and I had to agree with them. She couldn't accept that. So she tried to take her own life 3 times over the course of a weekend.

Her husband (who was very supportive) committed her. After 6 weeks she was released and was her old self. Thank God she was not pregnant.

I am still pro-life. I admire those voluntarily give birth to and raise challenged children. Not everyone is that strong. But abortion on demand (Roe V Wade) devalues the life of the unborn.

[soxfan22]

I'm sorry Sox but I'm still waiting for you to answer my question please

Pia

Pia and CG...

It's funny that you want me to answer your questions. There are probably 20 questions I 've asked that have gone unanswered.

My answer to you is that frankly, that is none of your business. Flip is very comfortable putting her life on the board (to her credit), I choose not to discuss personal decisions. Not to mention, your question is a nightmare of a hypothetical.

I will only say that, as I've made clear, I think abortion should be illegal except in the cases of rape/incest, or possible death to the mother if the child is carried to term. That is consistent with what I have posted here about my views on abortion.

Again I will say - only 1% of all abortions in this country fall into that category.

I apologized to Flip because my response to her was mean, ugly, incompassionate, and flippant. I genuinely feel bad about my response to her, and I said so.

Now, if it makes you feel good about yourself to continue raking me over the coals about something stupid that I said, then by all means continue. Otherwise, I think you have some turtles over at Maho you should go swimming with - I wish I could.

All the best to you.