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Xislandgirl
- Posts: 4163
- Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:03 pm
- Location: Slightly left of center
"Very good question Pete. When the market fell in 1981, you couldn't get a fixed rate of less then 18%. I found in my line of work that the wealthy never slow down, in fact they usually speed up in there spending when things are slow and just look for better prices. I am in the high end of the construction trade and am busier than I have ever been. If it slows to where I am out of work and dipping into my cash then you will be able to find me most days at Salt Pond. How's Butkus?"
I was the one who deleted my post on the '68 murder of RFK. I misread the comment as '72 and was correcting but then did a reread.
Just a couple of comments with the wealthy
1. The Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990 was the budget agreement by which President HW Bush broke his "read-my-lips" vow not to agree to new taxes. It was projected that the revenue yield would be 31 Million. Didn't happen. The wealthy changed their buying habits. One of the unintended consequences was that an industry was turned in turmoil, companies closed and good blue collar jobs ended.
2. So let's say you don't make the 250K that under an Obama plan would increase your taxes. But let's say that those that make over that amount 250K are the majority of your clients/customers. Maybe just maybe it might actually impact those that aren't worried about being taxed more, those under 250K Maybe the "wealthy" just won't buy.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2114854/posts
And remember that any government mandate to small business or even big business will not be absorbed by the business. It will result in either higher prices in the marketplace or even the loss of jobs. Business will not take the hit, they will just pass it one.
I was the one who deleted my post on the '68 murder of RFK. I misread the comment as '72 and was correcting but then did a reread.
Just a couple of comments with the wealthy
1. The Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1990 was the budget agreement by which President HW Bush broke his "read-my-lips" vow not to agree to new taxes. It was projected that the revenue yield would be 31 Million. Didn't happen. The wealthy changed their buying habits. One of the unintended consequences was that an industry was turned in turmoil, companies closed and good blue collar jobs ended.
2. So let's say you don't make the 250K that under an Obama plan would increase your taxes. But let's say that those that make over that amount 250K are the majority of your clients/customers. Maybe just maybe it might actually impact those that aren't worried about being taxed more, those under 250K Maybe the "wealthy" just won't buy.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2114854/posts
And remember that any government mandate to small business or even big business will not be absorbed by the business. It will result in either higher prices in the marketplace or even the loss of jobs. Business will not take the hit, they will just pass it one.
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cypressgirl
- Posts: 2178
- Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:42 pm
- Location: houston
I've talked to several people who are small business owners and they say if their taxes go up, they will have to lay off or hire fewer workers. And like Jorge said, he's going to pass his tax hikes on to his customers, so I don't see how this helps anyone.
To quote Laura Ingraham.........There are too many people riding in the cart and not enough people pulling it..........there a lot of people that certainly need welfare (and let's be honest, that's what Obama's plan is) but there are a bigger number that have a victim mentality and are waiting for a free ride. They think this guy is their ticket to "sticking it to the rich". It's only going to make matters worse. Jorge is not going to suffer. He may not stay in as nice a villa as he used to, but his life is not going to change much. The worker he has to lay off, or the crew that doesn't get a raise are the ones that will suffer.
I'm not crazy about McCain either, but I think he'll do less damage to our country than Obama. He and Bush are not the same person. The media has done a great job of selling that for Obama.
Neither one will talk about what they are going to cut. They will have to cut something to keep all their promises. I'd like someone to put a pencil and calculator to all this bullcrap and see what the bottome line really is.
To quote Laura Ingraham.........There are too many people riding in the cart and not enough people pulling it..........there a lot of people that certainly need welfare (and let's be honest, that's what Obama's plan is) but there are a bigger number that have a victim mentality and are waiting for a free ride. They think this guy is their ticket to "sticking it to the rich". It's only going to make matters worse. Jorge is not going to suffer. He may not stay in as nice a villa as he used to, but his life is not going to change much. The worker he has to lay off, or the crew that doesn't get a raise are the ones that will suffer.
I'm not crazy about McCain either, but I think he'll do less damage to our country than Obama. He and Bush are not the same person. The media has done a great job of selling that for Obama.
Neither one will talk about what they are going to cut. They will have to cut something to keep all their promises. I'd like someone to put a pencil and calculator to all this bullcrap and see what the bottome line really is.
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sailorgirl
- Posts: 1644
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:03 pm
Here is an "achievement" of Barack Obama: Senate bill S2433-The Global Poverty Act.
It obligates the US to turn over .7% of our GNP to the United Nations over and above all the foreign aid we currently give. It also gives the UN authority to raise the percentage of the GNP if it sees fit. It also commits us to other treaties such as banning handguns and subjecting our military to the whims of the World Court.
At current levels that would be 65 billion per year-over the course of 13 yrs-845 billion. Senator Coburn is currently blocking this bill.
Do we really want to surrender our sovereignty to the UN?
It obligates the US to turn over .7% of our GNP to the United Nations over and above all the foreign aid we currently give. It also gives the UN authority to raise the percentage of the GNP if it sees fit. It also commits us to other treaties such as banning handguns and subjecting our military to the whims of the World Court.
At current levels that would be 65 billion per year-over the course of 13 yrs-845 billion. Senator Coburn is currently blocking this bill.
Do we really want to surrender our sovereignty to the UN?
In my opinion, Cypress is getting to the crux of the problem in this election/country. I'm a true independent/centrist who wishes third party candidates in this country had a snowball's chance in hell. We should have an affirmative action election program for them that puts them on a more equal footing.cypressgirl wrote:I've talked to several people who are small business owners and they say if their taxes go up, they will have to lay off or hire fewer workers. And like Jorge said, he's going to pass his tax hikes on to his customers, so I don't see how this helps anyone.
To quote Laura Ingraham.........There are too many people riding in the cart and not enough people pulling it..........
Neither one will talk about what they are going to cut. They will have to cut something to keep all their promises. I'd like someone to put a pencil and calculator to all this bullcrap and see what the bottome line really is.
Now, I'm not picking on Jorge, but since he's made an example of himself...lol. He says it doesn't matter what happens economically he'll just pass it on. No harm no foul, that's his right. His other option (he will tell you) is to lay somebody off. WHAT??? I'm not sure here, but someone in the middle or someone without a horse in that race might sugget passing a portion on to your customer and taking the other part as an increase in the cost of doing business. The less affluent guy gets to keep his job and I don't have to hear "Jorge" complain about all the people he's contributing entitlements to in the form of tax dollars. Didn't he just lay someone off?
On the other end of the spectrum are the people who simply don't want to work. They wouldn't know it if they tripped over it. They are incensed by "Jorge" and his unwillingness to fund their entitlements. I don't blame Jorge. It's not our fault people have been coddled so long they feel entitled. I can think of two major political parties who should shoulder the blame.
I think we should link the entitlement issue to the infrastructure issue and get some roads and bridges repaired/replaced. I'm all for low-risk inmates and able bodied low income people being put to work on public works projects much like was done after the depression. If I'm paying $40,000 or so a year to keep a guy in prison for having a bag of weed, I think we can at least get some paving or concrete work out of him.
As you can see, I think the problem is that nobody is willing to make concessions or inject some common sense into the debate. There are simple, reasonable solutions out there, but everyone is too busy arguing about the things we've been told are important. Meanwhile, both parties continue on their merry way holding on to their wealth and power while we keep arguing about meaningless crap.
Now we're stuck once again choosing the lesser of two evils. Until we decide to open up our political process to someone besides rich dudes and other rich dudes, we'll continue to get more of the same. Isn't there an old saying about doing the same thing and expecting a different result?
For the sake of the thread...I think Obama is the lesser of the two evils...but just barely. Change for the sake of change?
I'm gonna guess the poverty levels are rising because of 8 years of Republicans trimming people out of assistance..for better or worse.sailorgirl wrote:I think that since the mid 90's the number of public assitance recipients has dramtically decerased while poverty levels are on the rise. I don't know what the answer is, but I'm not sure we are even asking the right question.
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Pete (Mr. Marcia)
- Posts: 1471
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:48 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin
CNN reported today that Bush voted for McCain. No surprise there. But, given that McCain likes to see himself as the candidate of "change" it is kind of ironic.
To the poster above who wanted specifics on cuts that each candidate would make, Obama has given us one, big one...he would cut this stupid war. That's a good start.
To the poster above who wanted specifics on cuts that each candidate would make, Obama has given us one, big one...he would cut this stupid war. That's a good start.
Wisconsin, smell the dairy air
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sailorgirl
- Posts: 1644
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:03 pm
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cypressgirl
- Posts: 2178
- Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:42 pm
- Location: houston
Cid, you're a logical guy. Be careful what you wish for. Not all change is good. We can change ourselves right into looking like France.
When Obama speaks about this country, he says "the global community......the world.....The USA is better than the rest of the world, and I'm tired of BO making apologies for us. When the shit hits the fan, who does the "world" want to come to the aid? YOU, the tax payer.
When Obama speaks about this country, he says "the global community......the world.....The USA is better than the rest of the world, and I'm tired of BO making apologies for us. When the shit hits the fan, who does the "world" want to come to the aid? YOU, the tax payer.
Here is an email I just received...........something to think about 
Pia
A question of perspective :
Obama/Biden vs McCain/Palin, what if things were switched
around?..... think about it.
Would the country's collective point of view be different? Could racism be the culprit?
Ponder the following:
What if the Obamas had paraded five children across the stage, including a three month old infant and an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter?
What if John McCain was a former president of the Harvard Law Review?
What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class?
What if McCain had only married once, and Obama was a divorcee?
What if Obama was the candidate who left his first wife after a severe disfiguring car accident, when she no longer measured up to his standards?
What if Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a long affair while he was still married?
What if Michelle Obama was the wife who not only became addicted to pain killers but also acquired them illegally through her charitable organization?
What if Cindy McCain graduated from Harvard?
What if Obama had been a member of the Keating Five?
(The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings
and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s.)
What if McCain was a charismatic, eloquent speaker?
What if Obama couldn't read from a teleprompter?
What if Obama was the one who had military experience that included discipline problems and a record of crashing seven planes?
What if Obama was the one who was known to display publicly, on many occasions, a serious anger management problem?
What if Michelle Obama's family had made their money from beer distribution?
What if the Obamas had adopted a white child?
You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected reality, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are?
This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities in another when there is a color difference.
Educational Background:
Barack Obama:
Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in International Relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude
Joseph Biden:
University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)
vs.
John McCain:
United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899
Sarah Palin:
Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism
Education isn't everything, but this is about the two highest offices in
the land as well as our standing in the world. You make the call.
Pia
A question of perspective :
Obama/Biden vs McCain/Palin, what if things were switched
around?..... think about it.
Would the country's collective point of view be different? Could racism be the culprit?
Ponder the following:
What if the Obamas had paraded five children across the stage, including a three month old infant and an unwed, pregnant teenage daughter?
What if John McCain was a former president of the Harvard Law Review?
What if Barack Obama finished fifth from the bottom of his graduating class?
What if McCain had only married once, and Obama was a divorcee?
What if Obama was the candidate who left his first wife after a severe disfiguring car accident, when she no longer measured up to his standards?
What if Obama had met his second wife in a bar and had a long affair while he was still married?
What if Michelle Obama was the wife who not only became addicted to pain killers but also acquired them illegally through her charitable organization?
What if Cindy McCain graduated from Harvard?
What if Obama had been a member of the Keating Five?
(The Keating Five were five United States Senators accused of corruption in 1989, igniting a major political scandal as part of the larger Savings
and Loan crisis of the late 1980s and early 1990s.)
What if McCain was a charismatic, eloquent speaker?
What if Obama couldn't read from a teleprompter?
What if Obama was the one who had military experience that included discipline problems and a record of crashing seven planes?
What if Obama was the one who was known to display publicly, on many occasions, a serious anger management problem?
What if Michelle Obama's family had made their money from beer distribution?
What if the Obamas had adopted a white child?
You could easily add to this list. If these questions reflected reality, do you really believe the election numbers would be as close as they are?
This is what racism does. It covers up, rationalizes and minimizes positive qualities in one candidate and emphasizes negative qualities in another when there is a color difference.
Educational Background:
Barack Obama:
Columbia University - B.A. Political Science with a Specialization in International Relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) Magna Cum Laude
Joseph Biden:
University of Delaware - B.A. in History and B.A. in Political Science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)
vs.
John McCain:
United States Naval Academy - Class rank: 894 of 899
Sarah Palin:
Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in Journalism
Education isn't everything, but this is about the two highest offices in
the land as well as our standing in the world. You make the call.
Last edited by Pia on Sat Oct 25, 2008 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I don’t really see how you can say some of the things you said, because to me they sounded quite passive, and frankly, unaware. However, I agree with you about the points you made relating to the Iraq war: it needs to end, and fast. I don’t think Mc Cain is the person who would end this war quickly. Obama seems much more dedicated to this cause in my opinion.
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Pete (Mr. Marcia)
- Posts: 1471
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:48 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin
Pia...nice work.
I want a president who is smarter than I. Clinton is. Bush is not. McCain is not. And, I'm not that smart.
I've said this before...for me, it's like watching sports. When I watch an athlete make a play that I never could make, I'm awed. I want that same awe, intellectually, from my president.
I'll always vote for the smart guy over the frat boy.
I want a president who is smarter than I. Clinton is. Bush is not. McCain is not. And, I'm not that smart.
I've said this before...for me, it's like watching sports. When I watch an athlete make a play that I never could make, I'm awed. I want that same awe, intellectually, from my president.
I'll always vote for the smart guy over the frat boy.
Wisconsin, smell the dairy air