- a voice from Denmark

[linne]

Even though I know that my opinion is unimportant, and that some of you are tired of talking politic, I cannot resist bringing a voice from Denmark into the discussions, which have been here lately.

I was once told in the forum that there were more people, who voted to American Idol than to the election. That surprised me. We also have a competition in DK like American Idols, and I'm sure that there were lesser votes here than 87% of the eligible voters, which was the election turnout in our last election here.

So for me it has been interesting to see that some of VIOL's members definitively are interested in politic and also know a lot about it. And are going to vote! My opinion is that even though you don't really like any of the candidates, you should vote. Normally you will be able to find a candidate, you dislike less than the other(s), and if you give this person your vote, you perhaps can prevent that the person, you dislike most, will win. We have to accept that it's difficult to find a perfect candidate. They are all human beings with faults and lacks. So you just have to find the one, you think will be the "less bad". Of course you can be so dead tired of politic that you want to demonstrate it by not voting. But do you think it helps?

It has also been entertaining to read all the different opinions (although I don't like if people do not talk "nice" to each other). It seems as if most of you want Obama as president. So do I - like most of the Europeans. If it were the Europeans, who should choose the president of USA, Obama would win. It's a little strange, because some of Mc Cain's views, too example about free trade are more like the Europeans. In a way I shouldn't either be for Obama. I like our prime minister in DK, I have voted for him, and I still think, he is one of the best prime ministers we have had. But many of his views are more like Bush's, we have participated in the war in Iraq, and we are now present in Afghanistan.

For me, and I think other Europeans, one of the reasons why we prefer Obama is that we need "a change" in the very important country USA. I know, its' so easy just to say "a change". But the world is not, as we wish it to be, so perhaps we should try a a new way - and Mc Cain is not enough "change". I also have to admit that even though I know many clever people in their seventieth, I still would be a little worried about Mc Cains age and health, and I'm afraid that it will be difficult for Palin as a vice-president, or perhaps a president, to get the necessary respect both in USA and among the other leaders in the world. She is just too unknown. At the same time she has small children to take care of. I'm afraid, it will be very difficult both to be a good mother of five (and soon a grandmother) and at the same time perhaps be the leader of USA for shorter or longer time (sorry to say that girls, but we have been taken care of our 2 grandchildren this weekend, and there was enough to do).

To choose Obama send an important signal to the rest of the world telling that even though you are "half black" and even though your father is from Africa you can be the president of USA. That's how a free country functions.

But just now I really hope that the economic crisis will stop. The problems in USA have now reached Europe. Our personal saving for the pension, which we partly has invested in shares, has lost many percent of the value. I'm afraid that some of dreams, we have had for the third age, will be difficult to fulfil - among them a lot of travelling.

In a way I think it's wrong to help the banks which have been too greedy and careless, but I'm afraid it will be worse for all of us, if the government don't do it.

Best wishes!

Linne

[California Girl]

Hi Linne - Thanks for your post. It's interesting to see how our elections are viewed from another country and another point of view.

[JT]

linne, thanks for a thoughtful, insightful post from an outsider's perspective.

[bayer40601]

linne-Thank you so much for taking the time to post your thoughts. I always enjoy your posts. They seem to be so well thought out. Like others who have posted, I am always interested in hearing how our election process is viewed by those abroad.

[hugo]

I would also like to thank you for voicing an opinion remarkably similar to my own, in a manner remarkably more polite than I would be capable of. As a Virgin Islander, I also can not vote. Although the islands are so Americanized now, the influences were heavily European when I was younger, and we can still usually look at the US in a somewhat detached way. Unfortunately, this year the choice will affect the whole world profoundly. Thanks again!

[iowaguy]

Thanks, Linne, for your perspective. One of many reasons I like Obama is how well he is viewed abroad.

[Teresa_Rae]

Linne, more people vote for President than for American Idol...but since people can vote multiple times for American Idol, and people under 18 can vote as well, there are more total votes for American Idol, but less people voting.

In a way I think it's wrong to help the banks which have been too greedy and careless, but I'm afraid it will be worse for all of us, if the government don't do it.

I think the people who took out loans they couldn’t afford are to blame more than the banks. Just because you can get a loan doesn’t mean that you can afford it. I believe it is the personal responsibility of every single person to not spend more than he or she can afford. If I go into massive credit card debt that I cannot afford, that is not the fault of the credit card company for giving me the card, it is my fault for spending more than I can afford. And if I buy a house that I cannot afford, it is not the bank’s fault for giving me the loan, it is my fault for buying a house I couldn't afford.

When my husband and I bought our house, our loan was approved for a more expensive house than what we knew we could afford. But we were responsbible enough to not buy a house we couldn't afford. Greedy people who wanted expensive houses that they couldn't afford caused this mess. And government programs encouraged and allowed it to happen.

This is a good article about why the banks started giving loans to people who could not afford them…they were required to do so by the government:
http://wsj.com/article/SB122298982558700341.html

[soxfan22]

Thanks, Linne, for your perspective. One of many reasons I like Obama is how well he is viewed abroad.

Michael Jackson is still revered in Europe.

[Kathyzhere]

Good Day Linne,


I appreciate the perspective of another that lives outside of the USA. One of the many reasons that I can "relate" to Obama is that he does seem to care how others view us. I believe it is a shame how for almost the past 8 years we have been looked upon with shame.

Thanks again for your support

Kathy

[Gromit]

Linne,

Apparently you are not alone in our feelings about our upcoming election.

When people found out that we were American, when we were visiting Prague in July we were constantly asked what we thought about Obama and if we planned to vote for him.

The Czech people were well informed about the issues and were eager to discuss them as were most other Europeans we encountered during our 10 day stay in the Czech Republic.

My Mom just returned from Ireland and encountered the same phenomenon. Folks were every eager to see what she thought and who she was going to vote for.

Sad to say that my knowledge of Irish and Czech politics are non existent.

But what it does reflect is an understanding of those around the world that what happens in the US can greatly impact their futures as well and reinforces the responsibility that we have for our friends and allies across the pond. Most importantly that the results of this election will have a lasting impact on our reputation and role in the future of the world's politics and economic stability.

I can only hope that Americans are thoughtful and make the best choice possible.

[Gromit]

Theresa et al -- referencing the mortgage/financial crisis issue-- the government under CRA did not require banks to give out these loans.

1. I do not claim expertise on the Community Reinvestment Act, but here's the Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

2.From my understanding, it doesn't say "Hey banks, make sure you extend a bunch of bad loans to people that don't deserve them and will never pay you back anyway. They'll probably just buy Nikes with the cash and lay on the couch."

Rather, the CRA says something like this: "Hey, of all those people you left behind in the cities, some of them actually have managed to maintain good jobs, a meager savings, and a willingness to work hard to earn credit."

They, like us, want to build wealth so they can see their children live better lives than they have. Oh, and by the way, it's pretty wack that you've been discriminating against people of color for all these years, so try to give creditworthy families of color a chance to succeed too. We *are* still trying to maintain that whole 'Land of Opportunity' reputation."

2. In an ideal world, yes, banks would have a moral obligation to do right by the people that make up their clients and their workforce...but I don't purport to be able to legislate it in this far from ideal world.

What banks DO currently have a legal obligation to do is lend fairly, defined by standards that need to be vetted for prejudice and discrimination. This is another whole can of worms, but credit scores in and of themselves are actually racist. Shocker, I know.

3. I totally agree with risk-based pricing. But a lot of the folks that got into ridiculous self-destructing mortgages were beyond any reasonable notions of risk. They were downright doomed.

They never should have gotten mortgage loans in the first place. Another large swath of people at the fore of the bank bendover were STEERED into worse loans than for which they qualified because it paid out more (kickback) to the broker and lender.

A recent study commissioned by the Wall Street Journal showed that up to 60% of borrowers in a pool of over $1 Trillion of subprime mortgage loans could have qualified for prime rate loans. That's not risk-based pricing - that's greed-based pricing.

And for the record, subprime is good...predatory subprime is bad. Big difference.

4. Yes, Freddie and Fannie have blood on their hands, but they were more like the getaway drivers than the psycho killer himself.

As for legislating social justice, sadly, I realize how long it will take to get back to that. I think our founding fathers had a pretty good sense of it, so I know we'll get there eventually, but we have A LOT of ugly public policy to clean up in the meantime.

5. Personal responsibility is a core American value. And being a smart consumer is a MUST in today's society. But I would venture to say that not everyone has access to the level of education that I did - whether from institutions, role models, family, etc.

I would also say that some of the most egregious business practices that went down in mortgage land would have tricked even the most billiantly educated (and did!) One should not be liable for a violation of personal responsiblity if they've been defrauded. The trickster is to blame. And WE are stuck paying for it.

[soxfan22]

Credit for these thoughts goes to Jason Dragon, of The Business Blog...http://capitalactive.wordpress.com/2008 ... a-so-much/

"I have noticed over and over again on the web, and talking with my friends in Europe that Europeans really love Obama, in fact if they could vote it would be a landslide election. Of course all the info they get is from the media, so what is the European media telling people about him. You can do a Google search and see long lists of glowing articles about him. In the last two elections here in the US in 2000 and 2004 all of Europe thought that the democrats would win by a landslide and in both cases they were shocked and dismayed.

Maybe it is because Obama wants America to be like Europe in many ways. He wants higher gas prices, wants to ban new drilling, and limit the importation of oil. He wants to pay for universal health care, just like Europe. He want to raise taxes to the point that you are working for the government. Obama wants a weaker military, just like most of Europe.

Maybe it is true that he has become a celebrity. Everyone knows how Europe loves those.

Europeans are blogging how they would love to be Americans, just to vote in this election.

But we here in America don’t want the be like Europe, with little economic growth, with a growing stronghold of atheism, with a weaker family structure than even the United States.

If you are in Europe, please tell me your view of Obama, I really would like to know if/why you support him."

I couldn't have said it better myself. With all due respect to Europeans, I have absolutley no interest in our country being morphed in their likeness.

Everybody loves Europe, yet their unemployment is skyrocketing...Their deep and wonderful cultures are being hijacked by secularists...Their cities are being overwhelmed by Mulim extremists...They pay more in taxes than any other group of nations in the world.

Supposedly everybody hates us...Yet they choose to come here to attend our colleges and universities...They watch closely our sporting events...They envy our freedom and liberty...They call US FIRST when they have a natural disaster or terror attack (Madrid? London?)...They travel here in droves to see the vast differences in our land's topography from one coast to the other...And yes, they even come to our Virgin Islands...

I'm tired of all this negativity that is put forward by people who have done nothing but benefit from all this country has done, and will continue to do. "Our reputation in the world is not what it used to be...". Yada, yada, yada.

There's a clip of Joe Biden in 1988 (when he last ran for President, right before he dropped out due to plageurism charges) saying that he wants to "restore our standing in the world". 1988. This is an old liberal mantra, repeated every 4 years. And you guys buy it hook, line, and sinker.
As Ronald Reagan Said, we are the Shining City on the Hill...And we will always be so.

[soxfan22]

Theresa et al -- referencing the mortgage/financial crisis issue-- the government under CRA did not require banks to give out these loans.

1. I do not claim expertise on the Community Reinvestment Act, but here's the Wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

2.From my understanding, it doesn't say "Hey banks, make sure you extend a bunch of bad loans to people that don't deserve them and will never pay you back anyway. They'll probably just buy Nikes with the cash and lay on the couch."

Your assertion that the government did not incentivize banks to issue these sub-prime loans is simply inaccurate. Also, Wikipedia is a fun read, but often not an accurate one.


From The Boston Globe:

"The subprime mortgage collapse is another tale of unintended consequences.

The crisis has its roots in the Community Reinvestment Act of 1977, a Carter-era law that purported to prevent "redlining" - denying mortgages to black borrowers - by pressuring banks to make home loans in "low- and moderate-income neighborhoods." Under the act, banks were to be graded on their attentiveness to the "credit needs" of "predominantly minority neighborhoods." The higher a bank's rating, the more likely that regulators would say yes when the bank sought to open a new branch or undertake a merger or acquisition.

But to earn high ratings, banks were forced to make increasingly risky loans to borrowers who wouldn't qualify for a mortgage under normal standards of creditworthiness. The Community Reinvestment Act, made even more stringent during the Clinton administration, trapped lenders in a Catch-22.

"If they comply," wrote Loyola College economist Thomas DiLorenzo, "they know they will have to suffer from more loan defaults. If they don't comply, they face financial penalties . . . which can cost a large corporation like Bank of America billions of dollars."

Banks nationwide thus ended up making more and more subprime loans and agreeing to dangerously lax underwriting standards - no down payment, no verification of income, interest-only payment plans, weak credit history. If they tried to compensate for the higher risks they were taking by charging higher interest rates, they were accused of unfairly steering borrowers into "predatory" loans they couldn't afford.
Trapped in a no-win situation entirely of the government's making, lenders could only hope that home prices would continue to rise, staving off the inevitable collapse. But once the housing bubble burst, there was no escape. Mortgage lenders have been bankrupted, thousands of subprime homeowners have been foreclosed on, and countless would-be borrowers can no longer get credit. The financial fallout has hurt investors around the world. And all of it thanks to the government, which was sure it understood the credit industry better than the free market did, and confidently created the conditions that made disaster unavoidable.

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe," warned Mark Twain, "while Congress is in session." Mark Twain was a humorist, but that was no joke."

http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/edito ... ngs_worse/

And just a reminder, it was Maxine Waters (D-CA), Chris Dodd (D-CT), Barney Frank (D-MA) who repeatedly told the likes of John McCain that "nothing was wrong with Fannie/Freddie" when HE CALLED FOR REFORM.

And it was Barry Obama taking more from these two institutions than any other politician.

[promoguy]

Thanks, Linne, for your perspective. One of many reasons I like Obama is how well he is viewed abroad.

Michael Jackson is still revered in Europe.

And Jerry Lewis in France and David Hasselhof that great American voice in most of Europe.

[KatieH]

SoxFan - Congratulations on your new baby! I hope you and your family are well.

Now, onto the politics: I hope you take this in the nicest possible way:

Oh, for the love of God, let it go
I'm a conservative and I'm done with this nonsense!
Forget ending the war, let's just end the proselytizing and MOVE ON, or one of us is going to report you to the INS as an illegal alien

Be well,