usvi-on-line
Asking for discounts on villas
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gymnastika
- Posts: 291
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:01 pm
- Location: texas
irbgolfin,
I have researched Virgin Gorda villas extensively about renting for a month or so's stay. A lot of them have monthly rate quotes on their web pages. For some reason, it seems to be a standard thing on VG I noticed. I didn't notice as much for St. John villas. I guess people like to chill out longer on VG. Anyhoo, some were really good monthly rates like 4 weeks for the price of 3, etc...
I have researched Virgin Gorda villas extensively about renting for a month or so's stay. A lot of them have monthly rate quotes on their web pages. For some reason, it seems to be a standard thing on VG I noticed. I didn't notice as much for St. John villas. I guess people like to chill out longer on VG. Anyhoo, some were really good monthly rates like 4 weeks for the price of 3, etc...
Gymnastika-- Not surprised that the BVI's offer rates for longer rentals. Most Europeans and Brits have much more extensive vacation benefits as compared to the American worker.
Europeans generally have anywhere from 4-6 weeks of vacation annually as a standard benefit in addition to national holidays.
Americans on the other hand generally have an average of two weeks. Most Americans would have to work for the same company for many years to build up to 4-6 weeks of vacay annually or they have to be exectuive management.
Of course our productivity is counted as one of the highest in the world as a result.
Personally, I'd rather have the vacation time.
Anyway, that's why probably why they offer longer rental rates.
Europeans generally have anywhere from 4-6 weeks of vacation annually as a standard benefit in addition to national holidays.
Americans on the other hand generally have an average of two weeks. Most Americans would have to work for the same company for many years to build up to 4-6 weeks of vacay annually or they have to be exectuive management.
Of course our productivity is counted as one of the highest in the world as a result.
Personally, I'd rather have the vacation time.
Anyway, that's why probably why they offer longer rental rates.
*Another fine scatterbrained production
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gymnastika
- Posts: 291
- Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:01 pm
- Location: texas
Gromit,
I'm with you there. I'd rather have the vacation time too. We were thinking if we had a career change and were to switch to another job, that would be the only time we could do something like stay for a month or longer.
I agree 100% on your other post as well about supply and demand. You made some good points.
I'm with you there. I'd rather have the vacation time too. We were thinking if we had a career change and were to switch to another job, that would be the only time we could do something like stay for a month or longer.
I agree 100% on your other post as well about supply and demand. You made some good points.
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greyhoundmom
- Posts: 978
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:06 pm
- Location: Columbia South Carolina
Villa Owner,
Definitely, don't take it in the pants even though 2009 is looking scary right now. My thought would be that if you have a 2 week rental (as we did last year in June at Orion's Hill), your renters would definitely appreciate a little discount for staying that length of time. Also, I don't know who your agent is, but ours was Caribbean Villas. The 5% that they charge over and above the villa rental and the VI tax made us seriously reconsider renting a villa through them again. Although we love the villa and the owners (who lived next door), we wish we could rent directly from the owners to offset this extra fee. To reiterate, if you have renters who want to rent for 2 weeks at a time, perhaps give them a little incentive for that extra week. Times are tough for everyone and I only want what is fair for everyone involved.
Definitely, don't take it in the pants even though 2009 is looking scary right now. My thought would be that if you have a 2 week rental (as we did last year in June at Orion's Hill), your renters would definitely appreciate a little discount for staying that length of time. Also, I don't know who your agent is, but ours was Caribbean Villas. The 5% that they charge over and above the villa rental and the VI tax made us seriously reconsider renting a villa through them again. Although we love the villa and the owners (who lived next door), we wish we could rent directly from the owners to offset this extra fee. To reiterate, if you have renters who want to rent for 2 weeks at a time, perhaps give them a little incentive for that extra week. Times are tough for everyone and I only want what is fair for everyone involved.
gymnastika,
Thanks for the tip! I agree with others that it is probably a function of European countries vacation time. As a co-op student almost 30 years ago I did a quarter in Germany, and the new receptionist in the office was telling me all the holidays and amount of vacation she got, mandated by law, and my jaw was dropping.
Now if there was an option for monthly car rental we'd be all set!
Thanks for the tip! I agree with others that it is probably a function of European countries vacation time. As a co-op student almost 30 years ago I did a quarter in Germany, and the new receptionist in the office was telling me all the holidays and amount of vacation she got, mandated by law, and my jaw was dropping.
Now if there was an option for monthly car rental we'd be all set!
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villa_owner
- Posts: 23
- Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2006 1:23 pm
Thanks to everyone for the constructive input. This has been a very helpful discussion.
We always try to work with people who deal with us directly, as we save the broker fee and part of the property management fee when we book this way - - a savings that we pass on to the renter. Many people don't know that the property management companies take anywhere from 20%-30% off the top for all bookings, and if a third party broker books it's another 10-15% in addition to that! (And, we get to pay all utilities, repairs. maintenance, landscaping, insurance, welcome baskets, sundries, small appliances - the list never ends - being the owner is the wrong business model it seems!)
So, it is always better to deal with the owners directly if possible. And, we always offer discounts for last minute bookings, repeat customers and multiple week bookings because this is a win-win for everyone. But, like I said, the interesting thing here is that recently all I have been getting is discount requests for high season (another one came in yesterday, believe it or not) and no negotiation has been acceptable thus far, which is something completely new in the many years we have been doing this. Just a strange trend that I wondered if anyone else has noticed.
We are lucky enough to have a popular rental, so I am still waiting to see what happens before doing anything drastic. Most people really don't start thinking about vacation until it gets cold, and our booking requests should reflect that soon. Should be an interesting year....
We always try to work with people who deal with us directly, as we save the broker fee and part of the property management fee when we book this way - - a savings that we pass on to the renter. Many people don't know that the property management companies take anywhere from 20%-30% off the top for all bookings, and if a third party broker books it's another 10-15% in addition to that! (And, we get to pay all utilities, repairs. maintenance, landscaping, insurance, welcome baskets, sundries, small appliances - the list never ends - being the owner is the wrong business model it seems!)
So, it is always better to deal with the owners directly if possible. And, we always offer discounts for last minute bookings, repeat customers and multiple week bookings because this is a win-win for everyone. But, like I said, the interesting thing here is that recently all I have been getting is discount requests for high season (another one came in yesterday, believe it or not) and no negotiation has been acceptable thus far, which is something completely new in the many years we have been doing this. Just a strange trend that I wondered if anyone else has noticed.
We are lucky enough to have a popular rental, so I am still waiting to see what happens before doing anything drastic. Most people really don't start thinking about vacation until it gets cold, and our booking requests should reflect that soon. Should be an interesting year....
Wow, this has been a very interesting discussion with perspectives I've not thought of before.
Villa_Owner, I had no idea the agencies were taking such a large percentage off the top. I'm glad you mentionted it as it will make me do more in the future to ascertain the owner of a villa I'm interested in and approach them directly (not for any discount, but to "help" their business).
I fall into the camp of "it never hurts to ask", but would really only ask (and actually never have) about a last-minute or repeat-renter discount. Kind of the idea that one doesn't deserve the chance at a discount unless they're actually doing you a favor (booking a week that would have been un-rented or coming back to rent with you again).
Thanks, all, for a very civil and thoughtful discussion on a topic that could have gotten ugly.
Villa_Owner, I had no idea the agencies were taking such a large percentage off the top. I'm glad you mentionted it as it will make me do more in the future to ascertain the owner of a villa I'm interested in and approach them directly (not for any discount, but to "help" their business).
I fall into the camp of "it never hurts to ask", but would really only ask (and actually never have) about a last-minute or repeat-renter discount. Kind of the idea that one doesn't deserve the chance at a discount unless they're actually doing you a favor (booking a week that would have been un-rented or coming back to rent with you again).
Thanks, all, for a very civil and thoughtful discussion on a topic that could have gotten ugly.
Jennifer
I think that most of us who are frequent vistors to STJ would rather rent directly from the owner. It would be a win/win. Your not paying the rental agency and you can give a better rate to the guest. The problem is that most villas are only listed through an agency.villa_owner wrote:So, it is always better to deal with the owners directly if possible.
Would it be against your contract with them rental companies to start a list of villa's and a direct number to the owner? I would suppose Anthony could put it right on here(sorry Anthony, I hate to volunteer you). I also think that by doing so, those villa's would get used more by people on the forum because you don't mind putting your name out there.
Just a suggestion
XOXO
Bug
I like knowing who the owner is and who is physically managing the villa. Viva specifically notes the villas they manage. One reason we rented Callaloo last April was the Viva management relationship. In fact, the guy who maintained the villa met us in Coral Bay and showed us to the house. It was great chatting with him about where the pump resets were, circuit panel location and the eccentricities of the house. He gave me his cell # and when I had a problem with the pool pump after a power outage he told me what order to reset things and it worked great.
Here's a pet peeve - villa greeters who do not know the house and do not tell us about any problems that might exist. Oven doesn't work? - "The part on order Mon, 2 weeks." I need to know.
Cheers, RickG
Here's a pet peeve - villa greeters who do not know the house and do not tell us about any problems that might exist. Oven doesn't work? - "The part on order Mon, 2 weeks." I need to know.
Cheers, RickG
S/V Echoes - Coral Bay - St. John, VI
having looked a couple of vacation home promotions with rental pools, i was aware that agency fees ran from 20 to 40% and thus i often thought of renting directly from owner since should be cheaper. however,
if you are dealing with someone in the usa even on stj, who claims to be the owner, how do you know? also with no presence on island, who do you call if you have a villa problem, ghostbusters?
bride says i'm world's biggest pessimist, i say caution lowers risk of surprises. god, i hate surprises more than i like discounts. sooo, 9 trips always local agency and while a couple of events, always remedied by local management. also as posted earlier, have always had good discounts due to last minute travel. don't wish all fellow formite's could nonrev, then too much competition for empty seats (even if airlines didn't go broke from lack of passengers).
my solution: villa owners form an association with minimum staff on island that can have presence to assure legitimacy and a local contact to handle service problems. point if 1 villa averages 50% occupancy at 2500 wk and pays 30% commission, that's almost $20,000py. 10 villas at 15% fee generates $100,000yr for one man operation, 50 villas at 10% generates $325,000 a yr to fund a decent local operation. split the 20% savings (30% current less 10% new) between the owners and folks like us who are the customers. we all win!
problem solved and i'm going to read some other posts.
papabou
if you are dealing with someone in the usa even on stj, who claims to be the owner, how do you know? also with no presence on island, who do you call if you have a villa problem, ghostbusters?
bride says i'm world's biggest pessimist, i say caution lowers risk of surprises. god, i hate surprises more than i like discounts. sooo, 9 trips always local agency and while a couple of events, always remedied by local management. also as posted earlier, have always had good discounts due to last minute travel. don't wish all fellow formite's could nonrev, then too much competition for empty seats (even if airlines didn't go broke from lack of passengers).
my solution: villa owners form an association with minimum staff on island that can have presence to assure legitimacy and a local contact to handle service problems. point if 1 villa averages 50% occupancy at 2500 wk and pays 30% commission, that's almost $20,000py. 10 villas at 15% fee generates $100,000yr for one man operation, 50 villas at 10% generates $325,000 a yr to fund a decent local operation. split the 20% savings (30% current less 10% new) between the owners and folks like us who are the customers. we all win!
problem solved and i'm going to read some other posts.
papabou
I know many owners rent their homes directly and with rental companies, but I think it'd cause a big mess if we all started renting directly from the owners. While I think 20-35% is a tad bit steep for their fees, the management companies do provide a service, and I'm pretty sure several of them do advertise here with Anthony. If you work with a villa and know the owner, I say go for it. But we shouldn't try to circumvent "the system" just to help the owners out. I know that when I do my villa search, in addition to all the rental companies, I do a pretty exhaustive google search and always check vrbo.com. I'm sure I'm still missing places, but I do prefer to rent from the owner when I can, especially when the owner is on island.
I've had a few owners offer me a discount when I went to book directly through them, just because it was so much cheaper to eliminate the middle man, but I don't fret when I have to go through a management company, especially not a good one. Of course, I try to avoid "everyone's favorite" management company with their extra fee...
On-island presence is important to me (either from the owner or the manager) because things always go wrong. Last year, when our villa greeter got stranded out on the East End and couldn't pick us up, the owner of Destination St. John personally came and got us. If we had dealt with someone off island, we might still be there waiting!
I've had a few owners offer me a discount when I went to book directly through them, just because it was so much cheaper to eliminate the middle man, but I don't fret when I have to go through a management company, especially not a good one. Of course, I try to avoid "everyone's favorite" management company with their extra fee...
On-island presence is important to me (either from the owner or the manager) because things always go wrong. Last year, when our villa greeter got stranded out on the East End and couldn't pick us up, the owner of Destination St. John personally came and got us. If we had dealt with someone off island, we might still be there waiting!
If villa owners keep circumventing their managers for rentals, what’s to keep the managers from dropping the property or raising their management fees? All services the management company provides and the management fees they charge the owner are, I assume, based on the totality of the income from a specific property. That just seems like Business 101.
If the manager drops the property, then doesn’t the villa owner run the risk of paying more for independent services as, when they are with a manager, they are probably obtaining services at a better price based on the number of villas they are servicing for the manager?
If their maintenance services go up, won’t the rates? Or, maybe worse, isn’t there the potential for the the villa to be maintained at a lesser level to reduce the owner’s out of pocket maintenance costs?
We have always rented from managers and we try to go with the “majors” who are on-island. We have had good results on STJ renting through a wholesaler but I have known her for years and she lives on-island and only rents properties from the most reputable companies on STJ. I know that working through her we will have a good response if we need it. She is the first call – her attitude is that she took a commission for the rental so she will support it.
The majors have offered us discounts as repeat renters. The one time we strayed and rented from an owner (and it was based on a discounted price offer) we had a bad experience and we learned our lessson. I want the safety net of being able to call someone if something goes wrong and have them appear to fix it within a reasonable time. I don’t want to be told over the phone to crawl under a villa and attempt to prime a pump or try to re-start a generator. If things go very wrong at a villa I want there to be a company who has the availability of other villas where they can move us. Vacations are much too short and when we rent a villa we are not signing up for “do-it-yourself” support. Just my two cents, anyway.
If the manager drops the property, then doesn’t the villa owner run the risk of paying more for independent services as, when they are with a manager, they are probably obtaining services at a better price based on the number of villas they are servicing for the manager?
If their maintenance services go up, won’t the rates? Or, maybe worse, isn’t there the potential for the the villa to be maintained at a lesser level to reduce the owner’s out of pocket maintenance costs?
We have always rented from managers and we try to go with the “majors” who are on-island. We have had good results on STJ renting through a wholesaler but I have known her for years and she lives on-island and only rents properties from the most reputable companies on STJ. I know that working through her we will have a good response if we need it. She is the first call – her attitude is that she took a commission for the rental so she will support it.
The majors have offered us discounts as repeat renters. The one time we strayed and rented from an owner (and it was based on a discounted price offer) we had a bad experience and we learned our lessson. I want the safety net of being able to call someone if something goes wrong and have them appear to fix it within a reasonable time. I don’t want to be told over the phone to crawl under a villa and attempt to prime a pump or try to re-start a generator. If things go very wrong at a villa I want there to be a company who has the availability of other villas where they can move us. Vacations are much too short and when we rent a villa we are not signing up for “do-it-yourself” support. Just my two cents, anyway.