For those who live in PA, VA, or OH

[soxfan22]

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[loria]

so is this what you call your 'research'????

[soxfan22]

so is this what you call your 'research'????

Did Obama not say it?

[loria]

ok, what part of 'is this what you call your 'research' ' didn't you understand?

i will restate it again ,slowly. just to be sure.

is. this. what. you. call. your. 'research' ???

[loria]

oh, and soxfan,
don't you think that given what you posted that it is rather ironic that the UMWA (yes, the cola miners union, big union infact)
has endorsed Obama???

http://www.mineworkers.org/index.php?q= ... -president

[soxfan22]

I believ the Plumber's Union also supported Obama. We've seen how a real life plumber feels about that.

They are a union - it is in their DNA to support the Democrat.

I'm more interested in what the rank and file believe, which is who will ultimately decide this election.

[loria]

hey , what's that sound?


oh! it's the sound of your 'research' based arguments crumbling around you!!!

thankfully this will be over on Tuesday (god willing)

[DCphoto]

what is wrong with trying to save the planet, what we do now will effect generations to come. Global warming is a real issue. I live in Va. and I am all for it!

[sherban]

I work in the power generation industry. The comp[any I work for makes the infrastructure and power plant components and technologies for wind power, coal power, gas fired power, etc.

I think Obama's comments are right on target for where this countries long term vision should be.

Coal is the dirtiest power source today, if we don't regulate it future generations will suffer from our short term greed.

I agree with Obama on this...we need to move the technology focus away from coal and tighten control on emissions...amen.

[loria]

I work in the power generation industry. The comp[any I work for makes the infrastructure and power plant components and technologies for wind power, coal power, gas fired power, etc.

I think Obama's comments are right on target for where this countries long term vision should be.

Coal is the dirtiest power source today, if we don't regulate it future generations will suffer from our short term greed.

I agree with Obama on this...we need to move the technology focus away from coal and tighten control on emissions...amen.

well said Sherban--my father was a pioneer in the alcohol fuels field (that sort of fell apart under reagan) he's been preaching this same line for the past 30 -odd years.....

[hugo]

I recall you referring to something like the "myth of human-caused climate change" in one of your innumerable earlier posts. And you have the unmitigated gall to take others to task for their research? So the world's scientists are ALL elitist pinkos too, along with the liberal arts majors?
There is NO debate among scientists...Any denial of reality comes from head-in-sand republican sheep (nice image, that!).
Even if you don't care about people beyond your little click, don't you care anything about the glorious wonder of the world we're destroying? Do you care if your grandchildren have to live in an unlivable world, or will it be OK if they can still hide in some sort of climate controlled bunker somewhere?
I sit here in one of the most glorious parts of this glorious world, and yes, the sea-level has risen in my life-time, and every summer we're blanketed by the dust of the sub-Sahara (didn't happen until the 1970's) and the smoke of the South American fires (didn't happen until the 1990's). I don't give rat's ass if a coal plant engineer doesn't have the brains to re-train as a solar engineer.
Growth can not continue indefinitely, whether it's economies, populations or waistlines. You change your habits or you die.

[soxfan22]

Hey Hugo - I appreciate your response.

Believe me, I am all for other types of renewable energy. Wind, solar, whatever...Bring it on - the sooner the better. My electric bill suffers along with everyone else's.

My issue is that while we have some politicians talking about developing new sources of energy - we haven't built a new nuclear plant in this country is 20-25 years (France gets about 75% of their electricity from nuclear)...We haven't built a new oil refinery in this country in 20-25 years...We can't drill off the coasts here, while other countries are already doing so...

And you know, there is "clean coal" technology out there - but Joe Biden said that they are not in favor. Now Obama says he is, but is he really? Why is he never on the same page as his running mate?

As for global warming...It is simply not true that "every scientist in the world believes that global warming is man made". That's just not true. There is plenty of skepticism out there on the issue, but Democrats always want to make us believe there is "concensus" among the science community. There simply is not.

And finally - I guess I am still coming to grips with a 1974 TIME article in which the case was made (strongly) that we were headed for another ICE-AGE. This was 34 years ago. A blink of an eye in the meteorological history of the world.

Here's a part of that TIME piece:

As they review the bizarre and unpredictable weather pattern of the past several years, a growing number of scientists are beginning to suspect that many seemingly contradictory meteorological fluctuations are actually part of a global climatic upheaval. However widely the weather varies from place to place and time to time, when meteorologists take an average of temperatures around the globe they find that the atmosphere has been growing gradually cooler for the past three decades. The trend shows no indication of reversing. Climatological Cassandras are becoming increasingly apprehensive, for the weather aberrations they are studying may be the harbinger of another ice age.

Telltale signs are everywhere —from the unexpected persistence and thickness of pack ice in the waters around Iceland to the southward migration of a warmth-loving creature like the armadillo from the Midwest.Since the 1940s the mean global temperature has dropped about 2.7° F. Although that figure is at best an estimate, it is supported by other convincing data. When Climatologist George J. Kukla of Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Geological Observatory and his wife Helena analyzed satellite weather data for the Northern Hemisphere, they found that the area of the ice and snow cover had suddenly increased by 12% in 1971 and the increase has persisted ever since. Areas of Baffin Island in the Canadian Arctic, for example, were once totally free of any snow in summer; now they are covered year round.[/

Link to entire article: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... 14,00.html

Aren't we really just hearing the inverse these days?

Forgive me if I'm skeptical. The Earth has always had warming and cooling periods, like the one described in this 1974 TIME piece.

[sherban]

Obama had the direction right....make coal less attractive because it is the dirtiest. You gotta hit big business in the wallet if you want them to listen.

We're working on new Nuclear technology/plants...going to be a while, but they are definately coming.

We're working on "clean" coal....this is more in the brochures than "in the field"...mostly still on the drawing board...it will come but I'm not sure how the cost/benefit ratio will pan out compared to Wind and Nuclear...we'll see.

As far as global warming causes goes...that's a black hole...

Peace-

[soxfan22]

Obama had the direction right....make coal less attractive because it is the dirtiest. You gotta hit big business in the wallet if you want them to listen.

We're working on new Nuclear technology/plants...going to be a while, but they are definately coming.

We're working on "clean" coal....this is more in the brochures than "in the field"...mostly still on the drawing board...it will come but I'm not sure how the cost/benefit ratio will pan out compared to Wind and Nuclear...we'll see.

As far as global warming causes goes...that's a black hole...

Peace-

I hear ya Sherb, I think we all want new sources, cleaner sources...We just have varying ideas on how best to accomplish that.

Sounds like you have some real insight into energy (your background is engineering, right?). My brother in law runs his own nuclear consulting company out in Pittsburgh...They have business at all of the major plants in the country (including Millstone here in CT).

Anyway, one day we were out visting them in Pit...We wnet shopping at a huge complex out there called Robinson Township, which is located up on top of a huge hill...He pointed out to me two different plants, miles off in the distance...One was a coal plant, with disgusting black smoke billowing out (that you could see from that distance, probably 8-10 miles at least) - and the other was a nuke plant - spewing nothing but almost clear water vapor.

Anyway, you say the nuke plants are coming...My brother in law is not so sure - working under the premise that Obama is elected.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do know that crippling industry, therefore the economy, is not it.

[sherban]

Now that I think of it....

It's kind of like the gas prices being a blessing in desguise...now that gas is 3$ a gallon I'm seeing less and less SUVs and more smaller cars and ...oh-yeah now MPG is king...not HP.....duh.

What the hell resources are going to be left for my grandchildren (yet to be born, of course) if we burn it all up now because it is so damned cheap?

Big business and utilities are just like you and I, they are going to keep crankin' through the cheap fuel until it is gone...once the "price" goes up (via carbon credits, or what-ever)...guess what...we are all scrambling to find more efficient technology...duh.

The shame of it is we gotta get beat with the price before we change our behavior.

Nuthin but 4-cyl cars in my garage...not so a couple years ago...

Hell yeah, put pressure on coal...make the industry think about cleaner energy!