usvi-on-line
Undecided Voters
First of all, I think the reason neither of them are talking about illegal immigration is because they both need the Hispanic vote. You don't want to take the wrong position and blow it, do you?
From what I understand, Obama's aunt came here on a tourist visa (not obtained by Obama's office), applied for political asylum and was rejected. She never left after she was rejected, and INS never followed up. He did say she should go back to Kenya and try to come back under legal circumstances, so to me, that speaks volumes about his position.
I struggle with this issue. My sister-in-law is from Mexico, and she went through hell to become a U.S. citizen. I also have a friend who is from Eastern Europe who graduated from college probably six years or more ago, and still lives and WORKS here on a student visa. I also have serious issues with Cubans having different rules than people from other countries. I think I would have an easier time getting behind some sort of laws or system if it were fair, and I don't think what we're doing now is fair for anyone -- the citizens or the immigrants.
Basically this whole long-winded thing was to say, even though immigration affects us here in Nashville and I do have a personal interest in it, I haven't really studied the candidates' positions, because I'm not sure what my position is!
From what I understand, Obama's aunt came here on a tourist visa (not obtained by Obama's office), applied for political asylum and was rejected. She never left after she was rejected, and INS never followed up. He did say she should go back to Kenya and try to come back under legal circumstances, so to me, that speaks volumes about his position.
I struggle with this issue. My sister-in-law is from Mexico, and she went through hell to become a U.S. citizen. I also have a friend who is from Eastern Europe who graduated from college probably six years or more ago, and still lives and WORKS here on a student visa. I also have serious issues with Cubans having different rules than people from other countries. I think I would have an easier time getting behind some sort of laws or system if it were fair, and I don't think what we're doing now is fair for anyone -- the citizens or the immigrants.
Basically this whole long-winded thing was to say, even though immigration affects us here in Nashville and I do have a personal interest in it, I haven't really studied the candidates' positions, because I'm not sure what my position is!
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California Girl
In the first place, you're not stirring things up, you're just saying how things are.DCphoto wrote: I know California depends heavily on illegals for their crops and farms for harvesting. I'm all for a temporary work permits. Lets face it, the "average joe" does not want those jobs.
Ok, I have to speak carefully here because I don't have all the facts. (What is that saying about speaking up and proving you're an idiot?)
But from what I've seen, a lot of the industries hire illegals because they work cheap, they work hard and they don't make any trouble that would get them sent home. Average Joe doesn't want those jobs because welfare and unemployment often pay more than picking lettuce and strawberries does. If the farmer (in this instance) was willing to raise wages, I'm sure he'd find a few Average Joe's willing to work in the fields. Then Aveage Joe would spend his wages in to put a roof over his head and food in his mouth and our economy would improve. Average Jose is usually sending his wages back to Mexico.A number of years ago I worked for a picture framing company and there were mostly illegal Mexicans working in the back making frames; cutting, staining, gold leafing, etc. They were there from 6:30 or 7:00 in the morning and they worked until 6:00 at night. Nicest bunch of guys you'd ever want to know. In this case the employer is the real bad guy. He worked those guys lots and lots of overtime, but never paid them more than straight minimum wage. The guys needed the work, and the frame shop owner knew they wouldn't complain or make any trouble about not getting time & a half. If the owner had had to hire "citizens" he would have had to pay about $15.00 an hour (this was a few years ago), whereas he was paying the Mexican guys about $6.75. Average Joe Framer ain't going to be working for $6.75, I can tell you that!
I think that somehow, a recipient's welfare allowance should depend on how much he is providing for himself. Many people are on welfare or something similar for good and lawful reasons, but many are just sucking on the system. I've watched it with my own eyes. What was the word you used, Pete, "gravitas"?
I subscribe to what Teresa Rae posted about teaching a man to fish.
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bayer40601
- Posts: 612
- Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2007 1:06 pm
- Location: Kentucky
Illegal immigrants cut both ways. If you keep them you stir a segment of the population. If you get rid of all of them (if possible) you end up crippling the industries which rely on them to get their goods and products to market, which, in turn, will cause significant increases in the prices of those goods and products. That happens either because of decrease in the supply getting to the market not meeting the demand, or the producers have to pay higher wages, thereby increasing the cost of the goods.
I truly understand the concerns CG has with this issue. I can imagine that on some level the illegal aliens create huge problems in California. The real kicker is businesses have been allowed to use them without any significant penalty for so long it is virtually impossible to remove all of those here now.
I do think any law enforcement officer anywhere should be allowed to check on the immigration status of any person who is arrested for a criminal offense, or even any person who is stopped for a traffic offense. It makes no sense to me whatsoever that any law enforcement officer is prohibited from making those checks.
I truly understand the concerns CG has with this issue. I can imagine that on some level the illegal aliens create huge problems in California. The real kicker is businesses have been allowed to use them without any significant penalty for so long it is virtually impossible to remove all of those here now.
I do think any law enforcement officer anywhere should be allowed to check on the immigration status of any person who is arrested for a criminal offense, or even any person who is stopped for a traffic offense. It makes no sense to me whatsoever that any law enforcement officer is prohibited from making those checks.
How many more days?
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California Girl
I wouldn't mind paying higher prices if that's what it takes. Seriously! In the past couple of years, gasoline went from under $3.00 a gallon to nearly (in some cases "over") $5.00 a gallon and people didn't stop driving. Everyone cut back a little in their leisure driving, and maybe it forced people to look into how public transportation could work for them, but the freeway near my house (I-5) was still bumper-to-bumper all weekend long this past summer, just like it aways has been. It didn't seem that high gas prices were causing too much of a problem for those people. We just bitch about it and stick the hose in the car's rear end and filler' up and go about doing what we've always done!bayer40601 wrote: or the producers have to pay higher wages, thereby increasing the cost of the goods.
I'd be much more willing to pay more for food (and whatever else needs to increase in price) in order to stop paying for free services for people who are not in this country legally and are doing nothing merit those services.
To me the issue is a simple one to understand, however the solution is certainly not easy to figure out.
I truly believe if we are to fix this problem there has to be some give and take. I think that agriculture will be hit the hardest and the higher prices would be passed along to the consumer. There was some talk about a guest worker program. I believe they should pay some kinda tax on their income also. This word make it legal for them to work the fields and the farmers and so forth would not get in trouble for hiring illegals. It sounds good on paper, but I'm not sure the Government can handle or willing to do something about it.
Does not seem either party really wants to address this problem because of the impact on businesss. What they are doing now does not make sense, they send the ICE teams in and deport workers without going after the manufacturers who hire them in the first place.
Does not seem either party really wants to address this problem because of the impact on businesss. What they are doing now does not make sense, they send the ICE teams in and deport workers without going after the manufacturers who hire them in the first place.
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California Girl
Also,another thing that bothers me the most is the Illegals are coming here to have children, because they are born here, makes them US citizens, thus are eligible for welfare and other progams. It should not be an automatic citizenship if the parents are not legal. Alot of illegals that being deported have children in the US being raised by friends or other family members until they can come back over the border and these children are becoming victims of child rape and child labor and god knows what else that is not being reported. OK now I am ranting, I better get off here, I'm pushing my own buttons now 
CG;
Had a remarkable conference today. And, of course, political talk came up afterwards. An author had this to say and maybe it will help you with your decision..
"There aren't any Joe Sixpacks flying the Space Shuttle, and for good reason. It requires proven technical knowledge, hours of experience and uncommon learning to be any good at it. And while that guy (or gal) may be a barrel of laughs and a "really good person," I want the person steering that billion -dollar spacecraft to be the best there is, and I'm sure the others on board would, too.
By dumbing down our expectations of leadership and not demanding that those in power be amoung the best and the brightest, we all lose."
It's been a real empowering, educational conference.
...just had to share.
Had a remarkable conference today. And, of course, political talk came up afterwards. An author had this to say and maybe it will help you with your decision..
"There aren't any Joe Sixpacks flying the Space Shuttle, and for good reason. It requires proven technical knowledge, hours of experience and uncommon learning to be any good at it. And while that guy (or gal) may be a barrel of laughs and a "really good person," I want the person steering that billion -dollar spacecraft to be the best there is, and I'm sure the others on board would, too.
By dumbing down our expectations of leadership and not demanding that those in power be amoung the best and the brightest, we all lose."
It's been a real empowering, educational conference.
...just had to share.
No, it's not in the constitution. But I do not want "Joe Anybody" thinking they are can be in charge.
Come on, we deserve the best leadership we can get. I'm so done with being a country that everyone looks down on. We are a great country and need to move in that direction.
CG: In respect for you...I've obviously stirred up some rumble here and will leave.
Come on, we deserve the best leadership we can get. I'm so done with being a country that everyone looks down on. We are a great country and need to move in that direction.
CG: In respect for you...I've obviously stirred up some rumble here and will leave.