usvi-on-line
Question for Republicans
-
sailorgirl
- Posts: 1644
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:03 pm
[quote="soxfan22
Again, the OP has a choice of where to live. My in-laws move all the time, and the first question they ask is "what are the taxes?".
With universal healthcare, you will have no choice. Won't matter where you live.[/quote]
I think that's a false choice. The decison of where to live is often limited by many factors, such as jobs, family committments etc. Sure I could live more cheaply somewhere else, but I would not have the same earning capacity, nor am I in the position to leave because of family committments. Get involved in local government, see how the money is being spent. In LI where the OP is from there are something like 70+ school districts, certainly if we combined them savings could be obtained from the ecnomies of scale.
Again, the OP has a choice of where to live. My in-laws move all the time, and the first question they ask is "what are the taxes?".
With universal healthcare, you will have no choice. Won't matter where you live.[/quote]
I think that's a false choice. The decison of where to live is often limited by many factors, such as jobs, family committments etc. Sure I could live more cheaply somewhere else, but I would not have the same earning capacity, nor am I in the position to leave because of family committments. Get involved in local government, see how the money is being spent. In LI where the OP is from there are something like 70+ school districts, certainly if we combined them savings could be obtained from the ecnomies of scale.
Soxfan: Man are you an ogre!! I bet you see nothing wrong with clubbing baby seals either. I am middle of the roader on most issues. I do believe that people should be able to keep their money and spend it as they see fit. But, we live in the richest country in the world. There is no reason we shouldn't have free education and healthcare for everyone. These are just the basics. If you want to spend your money otherwise ,that's great, but we should make sure everyone has the basics.
I hate being presumptious, but when is the last time you were poor and couldn't afford the basics? I read some the other day that said 25% of the world's population live on $200 or less a year! 25%....that's a huge number. We got it good here in this country and we shouldn't feel cheated for helping out our countrymen. Why is it that right wingers don't bat an eye at $700 billion dollar bailouts and trillion dollar wars, but they can't seem to find the heart to ensure people have the basics so they too can pursue the proverbial American dream. I just don't get it....what's wrong with a little socialism. We are a melting pot aren't we?
I hate being presumptious, but when is the last time you were poor and couldn't afford the basics? I read some the other day that said 25% of the world's population live on $200 or less a year! 25%....that's a huge number. We got it good here in this country and we shouldn't feel cheated for helping out our countrymen. Why is it that right wingers don't bat an eye at $700 billion dollar bailouts and trillion dollar wars, but they can't seem to find the heart to ensure people have the basics so they too can pursue the proverbial American dream. I just don't get it....what's wrong with a little socialism. We are a melting pot aren't we?
I suppose I could avoid paying my fair share of public education costs if I lived in a cardboard box in the park. That's just not the most appealing "choice." The point of my post was not to complain about school taxes. I am a product of the public schools and have never voted down a school budget. I much prefer that my tax dollars go to insuring a first-class education for the children in my community than to go for tax breaks for Warren Buffet and the Walmart heirs. The intent of my original post was to simply point out that taxes "spread the wealth." Period. That's what they do because that's what they're intended to do. And I'm still not clear why the rightwing believes public education is fine but public healthcare is "socialism."
Very well said NYBB...NYBB wrote:I suppose I could avoid paying my fair share of public education costs if I lived in a cardboard box in the park. That's just not the most appealing "choice." The point of my post was not to complain about school taxes. I am a product of the public schools and have never voted down a school budget. I much prefer that my tax dollars go to insuring a first-class education for the children in my community than to go for tax breaks for Warren Buffet and the Walmart heirs. The intent of my original post was to simply point out that taxes "spread the wealth." Period. That's what they do because that's what they're intended to do. And I'm still not clear why the rightwing believes public education is fine but public healthcare is "socialism."
If we could get everyone's fingers out of the healthcare/education pie we could fix them both. I think we need to have accountability but with far fewer administrators. Too many chiefs, not enough Indians.
Okay...I have officially been sucked in. I have reading these posts and avoided posting and here I go again.
I am not a "Republican" - I consider myself fiscally conservative and socially liberal. While my fiscal views often drive my election-day vote, I certainly don't punch the Repubican ticket without thought.
Here are my concerns with the direction I see us going with the move towards, what has been cited as Socialism...
I am in favor of a government that looks out for it's weakest members. And a governemnt that provides a safety net for individuals that go through rough patches in their lives = god knows that any of us could need a hand someday.
My concern is that we appear to be moving towards a society in which we the breaks are being extended to individuals that fall outside this. When 30% to 40% of the individuals that will receive tax relief from Obama's tax proposal are individuals that pay no federal taxes, we have now redetributed wealth to a much broader group - many of those are individuals that are simply choosing not to contribute more.
I am sure I sound like I have no empathy, but I am concerned that the more we build a structure that does not reward those that work hard and the more that we reward those that choose not to, what is the incentive for anyone to try and work harder.
I truly understand that there are many, many individuals in our lowest tax brackets that work hard and there is certainly not always a direct coorelation between working hard earning money. I would just rather see our tax dollars that go to programs to directly help individuals emerge from poverty, rather than just give out more cash and reinforce a society of entitlement.
I am not a "Republican" - I consider myself fiscally conservative and socially liberal. While my fiscal views often drive my election-day vote, I certainly don't punch the Repubican ticket without thought.
Here are my concerns with the direction I see us going with the move towards, what has been cited as Socialism...
I am in favor of a government that looks out for it's weakest members. And a governemnt that provides a safety net for individuals that go through rough patches in their lives = god knows that any of us could need a hand someday.
My concern is that we appear to be moving towards a society in which we the breaks are being extended to individuals that fall outside this. When 30% to 40% of the individuals that will receive tax relief from Obama's tax proposal are individuals that pay no federal taxes, we have now redetributed wealth to a much broader group - many of those are individuals that are simply choosing not to contribute more.
I am sure I sound like I have no empathy, but I am concerned that the more we build a structure that does not reward those that work hard and the more that we reward those that choose not to, what is the incentive for anyone to try and work harder.
I truly understand that there are many, many individuals in our lowest tax brackets that work hard and there is certainly not always a direct coorelation between working hard earning money. I would just rather see our tax dollars that go to programs to directly help individuals emerge from poverty, rather than just give out more cash and reinforce a society of entitlement.
Very well said NYCC and CID.
It is astounding to me how people are so violently opposed to basic health care for everyone and yet seem so nonvocal about the Wall Street bailout or the trillions of dollars spent on questionable conflicts overseas.
We are the wealthiest nation it the world. Why should anyone in America have to make the choice of whether to go to the doctor, pay the rent or buy food? How many people reading this thread even have had to make those types of choices. My guess would be very few.
Hillary got my vote when Bill was elected to his first term and attempted health care reform. She got my vote again in this year's primary. Obama reaffirmed my vote in the last debate when he said he believed affordable health care was a right, not a privilege. Can he deliver? I don't know, but at least he had the guts and gumption to come out in favor of it.
It is astounding to me how people are so violently opposed to basic health care for everyone and yet seem so nonvocal about the Wall Street bailout or the trillions of dollars spent on questionable conflicts overseas.
We are the wealthiest nation it the world. Why should anyone in America have to make the choice of whether to go to the doctor, pay the rent or buy food? How many people reading this thread even have had to make those types of choices. My guess would be very few.
Hillary got my vote when Bill was elected to his first term and attempted health care reform. She got my vote again in this year's primary. Obama reaffirmed my vote in the last debate when he said he believed affordable health care was a right, not a privilege. Can he deliver? I don't know, but at least he had the guts and gumption to come out in favor of it.
When the end of the world comes, I want to be in Kentucky, because everything there happens 20 years after it happens anywhere else. – Mark Twain
I said I wasn't talking politics anymore. I said what I needed to when I clicked the pretty green box today.
However, I work in the health care industry and there was a recent article either in the NYT or Wash Post about Ted Kennedy working on a health care plan from his death bed. He is building a bipartisan coalition and it is looking good. I'll see if I can find the article.
However, I work in the health care industry and there was a recent article either in the NYT or Wash Post about Ted Kennedy working on a health care plan from his death bed. He is building a bipartisan coalition and it is looking good. I'll see if I can find the article.
Laura T- "My concern is that we appear to be moving towards a society in which we the breaks are being extended to individuals that fall outside this. When 30% to 40% of the individuals that will receive tax relief from Obama's tax proposal are individuals that pay no federal taxes, we have now redetributed wealth to a much broader group - many of those are individuals that are simply choosing not to contribute more."
I hear what your concern is and the problem is that incomes overall have to be able to sustain households. Business people always balk when you talk about raising the minimum wage. Has anyone here tried to live on minimum wage? Me either, but I'm not wealthy by any stretch. Inividuals and families need to be able to make a "liveable wage". In Vermont there is a formula to figure this out based on rents, utilities, mortges, taxes, insurance, transportation etc...
http://www.vtlivablewage.org/updatedliv ... gures.html
When you compare the liveable wage figure to the median income there is a sizeable gap. These are working people who simply don't have enough income to thrive like those better off. They are stuck in an endless loop of juggling bills and simply getting by. I say they shouldn't pay any taxes. Exxon/Mobil on the other hand...
Terry- This has indeed been a very long but interesting cycle.
I hear what your concern is and the problem is that incomes overall have to be able to sustain households. Business people always balk when you talk about raising the minimum wage. Has anyone here tried to live on minimum wage? Me either, but I'm not wealthy by any stretch. Inividuals and families need to be able to make a "liveable wage". In Vermont there is a formula to figure this out based on rents, utilities, mortges, taxes, insurance, transportation etc...
http://www.vtlivablewage.org/updatedliv ... gures.html
When you compare the liveable wage figure to the median income there is a sizeable gap. These are working people who simply don't have enough income to thrive like those better off. They are stuck in an endless loop of juggling bills and simply getting by. I say they shouldn't pay any taxes. Exxon/Mobil on the other hand...
Terry- This has indeed been a very long but interesting cycle.
Last edited by Cid on Thu Oct 30, 2008 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.