usvi-on-line
I think we're all a little guilty....
I think we're all a little guilty....
Please bear with me for this long post as I've got a lot swimming around in this scatterbrained head of mine and will try my best to articulate what I am thinking.
After reading some of the recent threads and having various discussions with folks on and off line, I have come to the conclusion that some of the VI traveling veterans should feel a little guilty.
I especially feel this way after reading about what some new visitors have written about their first time experiences and I, for one, want to accept some responsibility.
For many of us who are frequent, long time visitors, STJ and the other Vrigins clearly have a hold on our hearts and souls. And just like anything that you fall in love with, you can fall prey to overlooking the flaws.
Like my beloved teddy bear that's lost an ear and an eye and most of its fur or my recollections of a high school romance, I tend to look with my heart and not always with my common sense or brain.
After all, someone else may look at my childhood bear and think, "What the hell?" It stinks, and looks like it's been through a meat grinder. Twice.
But I look at it and am flooded with all of my childhood memories. I like the fact that he's broken in and soft and cuddly. Who cares if he's missng an eye?
I remembered some threads from a year or so ago when people who had researched their trips extensively on this forum came back and could not understand why anyone in their right mind would think Skinny Legs or Vie's would be worth a visit. They complained about the flies, the smell, the goats, the service, and the food.
Have I experienced any or all of these things/concerns at Skinny's or Vie's? Sure. Does it make a difference about whether or not I return? Hell no.
Perhaps too many of us romanticize our relationship with STJ. We focus on what we love about this very special place. And overlook what any reasonable person would see as a major problem/not pretty/not comfortable.
We look past the junk and the giant pigs eating out of dumpsters, the rotten smells of the mangroves as we drive past Love City mini mart, the drug dealers on the corner in Cruz Bay, the slow service at restaurants, the overpriced groceries, the mosquitos that pratically eat you alive, the chickens roaming around on the beach, the condition of the roads, the heat and humidity, the torrential rains, the sometimes junky rental cars from which you are not allowed to remove the top, having to take short showers to conserve water, and the fact that every local doesn't look happy all the time.
Instead, we focus on what is unique and interesting to us and what keeps drawing us back to STJ. Most of which is the natural beauty and uniqueness of the place. The feeling that you are on an adventure and discovering something for the first time on your own.
The fact that things are not perfect and Disnified; that the locals are salty and interesting; that I'm OK with my burger taking an hour to make because I'm am enjoying watching the people and scenery around me; and that I am out of my comfort zone (literally and figuratively).
In trying to find another analogy, I am reminded of shopping for the fabric for my wedding dress (12 years ago this month thankyouverymuch).
Going to the fabric store and facing bolt after bolt of shiny, polished fabric and taffeta I was immediately drawn to the bolts of raw silk.
To me, the shiny stuff all looked the same. It was engineered to look the same throughout the entire bolt of fabric. If you made a mistake working with it the mistakes would be glaring because the fabric was so perfect. Overall, these fabrics were flashy and were perfect for someone, but were not for me.
The raw silk on the other hand, felt more natural in my hands, covered in natural flaws and was different from one inch to the next.
It was literally a reflection of my life and who I am and who I hoped to be. From a distance looking subtley polished, but up close a full on hot mess. I knew working with the raw silk was more forgiving, flaws would blend in overall but would still be noticable. The dress would never look "perfect" and I was OK with that.
The end result was not perfection, but one that held a natural beauty for me and made me feel comfortable in my own skin.
I shouldn't be hurt when someone looks at that dress and thinks that it's ugly. It's just not for them. And there's nothing that I can do to change their minds.
So, in a roundabout way I think we're all a little guilty of romanticizing STJ and the VI's by looking at them through Jimmy Buffett and Kenny Chesney designer rose colored glasses. We're "selling" taffeta when what we really should be selling raw silk.
But I want folks to know that it's coming from the same genuine place that drew me to the raw silk over the taffeta. That allows me to see my teddy the same way that I saw him when he was brand new. To still think that my high school sweatheart has a full head of hair and doesn't weigh 400lbs.
STJ and the VI's at times can be a hot mess and not for everyone. And perhaps we can all do a better job of explaining and talking about the imperfect stuff a little more often. I know I try to when I write my trip reports. But the romantic in me always seeps through.
I guess what I'm saying is that I think we all need to remember that everything that's real has flaws. And that's not always a bad thing.
After reading some of the recent threads and having various discussions with folks on and off line, I have come to the conclusion that some of the VI traveling veterans should feel a little guilty.
I especially feel this way after reading about what some new visitors have written about their first time experiences and I, for one, want to accept some responsibility.
For many of us who are frequent, long time visitors, STJ and the other Vrigins clearly have a hold on our hearts and souls. And just like anything that you fall in love with, you can fall prey to overlooking the flaws.
Like my beloved teddy bear that's lost an ear and an eye and most of its fur or my recollections of a high school romance, I tend to look with my heart and not always with my common sense or brain.
After all, someone else may look at my childhood bear and think, "What the hell?" It stinks, and looks like it's been through a meat grinder. Twice.
But I look at it and am flooded with all of my childhood memories. I like the fact that he's broken in and soft and cuddly. Who cares if he's missng an eye?
I remembered some threads from a year or so ago when people who had researched their trips extensively on this forum came back and could not understand why anyone in their right mind would think Skinny Legs or Vie's would be worth a visit. They complained about the flies, the smell, the goats, the service, and the food.
Have I experienced any or all of these things/concerns at Skinny's or Vie's? Sure. Does it make a difference about whether or not I return? Hell no.
Perhaps too many of us romanticize our relationship with STJ. We focus on what we love about this very special place. And overlook what any reasonable person would see as a major problem/not pretty/not comfortable.
We look past the junk and the giant pigs eating out of dumpsters, the rotten smells of the mangroves as we drive past Love City mini mart, the drug dealers on the corner in Cruz Bay, the slow service at restaurants, the overpriced groceries, the mosquitos that pratically eat you alive, the chickens roaming around on the beach, the condition of the roads, the heat and humidity, the torrential rains, the sometimes junky rental cars from which you are not allowed to remove the top, having to take short showers to conserve water, and the fact that every local doesn't look happy all the time.
Instead, we focus on what is unique and interesting to us and what keeps drawing us back to STJ. Most of which is the natural beauty and uniqueness of the place. The feeling that you are on an adventure and discovering something for the first time on your own.
The fact that things are not perfect and Disnified; that the locals are salty and interesting; that I'm OK with my burger taking an hour to make because I'm am enjoying watching the people and scenery around me; and that I am out of my comfort zone (literally and figuratively).
In trying to find another analogy, I am reminded of shopping for the fabric for my wedding dress (12 years ago this month thankyouverymuch).
Going to the fabric store and facing bolt after bolt of shiny, polished fabric and taffeta I was immediately drawn to the bolts of raw silk.
To me, the shiny stuff all looked the same. It was engineered to look the same throughout the entire bolt of fabric. If you made a mistake working with it the mistakes would be glaring because the fabric was so perfect. Overall, these fabrics were flashy and were perfect for someone, but were not for me.
The raw silk on the other hand, felt more natural in my hands, covered in natural flaws and was different from one inch to the next.
It was literally a reflection of my life and who I am and who I hoped to be. From a distance looking subtley polished, but up close a full on hot mess. I knew working with the raw silk was more forgiving, flaws would blend in overall but would still be noticable. The dress would never look "perfect" and I was OK with that.
The end result was not perfection, but one that held a natural beauty for me and made me feel comfortable in my own skin.
I shouldn't be hurt when someone looks at that dress and thinks that it's ugly. It's just not for them. And there's nothing that I can do to change their minds.
So, in a roundabout way I think we're all a little guilty of romanticizing STJ and the VI's by looking at them through Jimmy Buffett and Kenny Chesney designer rose colored glasses. We're "selling" taffeta when what we really should be selling raw silk.
But I want folks to know that it's coming from the same genuine place that drew me to the raw silk over the taffeta. That allows me to see my teddy the same way that I saw him when he was brand new. To still think that my high school sweatheart has a full head of hair and doesn't weigh 400lbs.
STJ and the VI's at times can be a hot mess and not for everyone. And perhaps we can all do a better job of explaining and talking about the imperfect stuff a little more often. I know I try to when I write my trip reports. But the romantic in me always seeps through.
I guess what I'm saying is that I think we all need to remember that everything that's real has flaws. And that's not always a bad thing.
*Another fine scatterbrained production
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Jo Ann - VA
- Posts: 756
- Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2006 11:56 am
- Location: Virginia
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Xislandgirl
- Posts: 4163
- Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:03 pm
- Location: Slightly left of center
Reasonable person is a very subjective term. What I may enjoy, someone else may not. It does not make one or the other reasonable or unreasonable. Just different.Perhaps too many of us romanticize our relationship with STJ. We focus on what we love about this very special place. And overlook what any reasonable person would see as a major problem/not pretty/not comfortable.
I talk about my experiences, my opinions, and my impressions. This, as any other travel forum, needs to be taken for what it is, a faceless place on the internet where people post their experiences. If I followed all the advice I was given on Las Vegas, I would have had a miserable time. I took what appealed to me and moved on from what didn't. I took information from many differemnt sources and did not base my trip off the posts of a select few on just one board, but the collective voices from many places.
While I get what you are saying and why you are saying it, I do not feel guilty. Should I maybe tone down my love for the island? Maybe, but it likely won't happen. It is the place that makes me happy, I am not going to pretend it isn't to ensure that the island lives up to someone elses expectations.
I will never talk about island bathrooms in a glowing light or romanticize the dumpster by Great Cruz Bay road...That I solemnly swear
I have to say in my many many years visiting I have never seen a giant pig, much less one eating out of a dumpster. So I feel like I am missing out.
When is the best time to see these giant pigs?
This is not a joke, I do want to see the pigs. What makes St. John "perfect" to me is it's imperfections. If I want perfect, I can go to any number of resorts-complete with palm trees, white towels and umbrella drinks. I love the imperfections, even gross imperfections. I WANT to see a giant pig. Really bad. And I'll probably take a bunch of pictures of it and make all of you wait behind me in your jeeps when I do.
And then I'll post it on the forum and on my facebook page and tell everyone how awesome it is.
But unless you've been there, you can't smell it.
I do agree with you Gromit that we oooh and ahhh among each other, but for someone visiting the island after reading some of our comments, they might be in for quite the shock.
Nice post.
When is the best time to see these giant pigs?
This is not a joke, I do want to see the pigs. What makes St. John "perfect" to me is it's imperfections. If I want perfect, I can go to any number of resorts-complete with palm trees, white towels and umbrella drinks. I love the imperfections, even gross imperfections. I WANT to see a giant pig. Really bad. And I'll probably take a bunch of pictures of it and make all of you wait behind me in your jeeps when I do.
And then I'll post it on the forum and on my facebook page and tell everyone how awesome it is. But unless you've been there, you can't smell it.
I do agree with you Gromit that we oooh and ahhh among each other, but for someone visiting the island after reading some of our comments, they might be in for quite the shock.
Nice post.
"Sponges grow in the ocean...I wonder how much deeper it would be if that didn't happen."
Hate to disagree but I disagree. I have my own reasons for loving STJ and others have theirs for STT or STX or STJ or the BVI's. But I don't think I've ever put that upon anyone else and can't say I've really seen others do it to new folks.
Amongst ourselves perhaps
Is it possible to romanticize Skinny's? Wow, that's a stretch for me.
I think you can get a sense from people as to what they expect from the questions they ask. Not all the time but a lot of the time. But I agree it's not for all folks and some times the only way to figure that out is for someone to try it.
Just my thoughts......
Amongst ourselves perhaps
Is it possible to romanticize Skinny's? Wow, that's a stretch for me.
I think you can get a sense from people as to what they expect from the questions they ask. Not all the time but a lot of the time. But I agree it's not for all folks and some times the only way to figure that out is for someone to try it.
Just my thoughts......
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sapphirecat
- Posts: 246
- Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:43 pm
- Location: Turtle Bay, NYC
All of those things listed as "bad" are what make St. John so special to me. I would not want to go there if there were not pigs and chickens and even the flesh eating mozzies. I maybe lucky or maybe it's that I usually have children in tow but all of the people (expect one lady who is never nice on any of my visits and she come from the states) have all been pleasant enough to deal with. I never want that island to become "polished" being stinky, hot, and beautiful is what makes it so special to me.
Being someone who just a few weeks ago visited STJ for the first time, I can see how some people might get the wrong idea about the island just by reading. I, thankfully, did not go through that because I think I took a more realistic approach to my first trip, and realized that no place is perfect; especially due to the fact that we visited the island as a whole, not an all inclusive resort where things could possibly be perfect. After visiting, I did notice imperfections, but I still love STJ and can't wait to be back!
Bryan
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Pete (Mr. Marcia)
- Posts: 1471
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:48 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin
I am pretty sure that the parents of the 14 year old girl who was killed are not romanticizing the "realness" of the islands.
There is quirky, but safe "real." (Dumpster eating pigs and the smell of urinal cakes at Skinny's) And then there is, this really sucks "real."
My impression is that the other thread was addressing the later.
There is quirky, but safe "real." (Dumpster eating pigs and the smell of urinal cakes at Skinny's) And then there is, this really sucks "real."
My impression is that the other thread was addressing the later.
Wisconsin, smell the dairy air
Nice job.
Ah yes – the pitfalls of the overglowing trip report or other STJ and JVD rhapsodies posted here, similar to going on and on too much about STJ at the water cooler or at family gatherings.
It violates the “lead pipe rule”. That’s a rule we made after you go on and on about a movie or restaurant or something to friends, then they go based on your recommendation, and lo and behold, they think it’s not that great (or worse).
After this happens a couple times, I said to my wife the next time any of us start going overboard about something, will the other one please hit the offender upside the head with a lead pipe (figurative of course). So when one of forgets, the other whispers “Lead pipe, lead pipe”. Nicer than a kick under the table.
Similar sentiments were behind the “Most Overrated/Most Underrated” threads I started in 07 and again 09 that started out like this:
“It is always interesting to me when folks almost sheepishly admit that THEIR experience with any of the iconic institutions or experiences of St. John did not live up to the hype for them or, maybe ain't what it used to be.
Makes me wonder how many don't speak up because they don't want to go against popular opinion. The caveat of course is that a mediocre anything in STJ is usually better than similar back in the real world.
Well, here is your chance to sound off. (No flaming allowed) For example, last year we finally hit the Miss Lucy Sunday brunch and were underwhelmed by the whole thing i.e. the "specials" that were anything but, the talent of the "jazz combo", etc.
Conversely, there are other things that maybe DON'T get the props they deserve, like Sun Dog Cafe in Mongoose Junction, who serve up consistently wonderful casual food and is great to combine with some shopping when we need a break from the midday sun. So good we hit it twice for lunch last year.
So what's your two cents ???”
I see that the 07 MO/MU thread has 107 replies and over 25k views(!). Folks did unload on some of the “institutions” of the island.
Hopefully posts like yours and threads like that helped newbies make some better choices and old hands try some new stuff.
Ah yes – the pitfalls of the overglowing trip report or other STJ and JVD rhapsodies posted here, similar to going on and on too much about STJ at the water cooler or at family gatherings.
It violates the “lead pipe rule”. That’s a rule we made after you go on and on about a movie or restaurant or something to friends, then they go based on your recommendation, and lo and behold, they think it’s not that great (or worse).
After this happens a couple times, I said to my wife the next time any of us start going overboard about something, will the other one please hit the offender upside the head with a lead pipe (figurative of course). So when one of forgets, the other whispers “Lead pipe, lead pipe”. Nicer than a kick under the table.
Similar sentiments were behind the “Most Overrated/Most Underrated” threads I started in 07 and again 09 that started out like this:
“It is always interesting to me when folks almost sheepishly admit that THEIR experience with any of the iconic institutions or experiences of St. John did not live up to the hype for them or, maybe ain't what it used to be.
Makes me wonder how many don't speak up because they don't want to go against popular opinion. The caveat of course is that a mediocre anything in STJ is usually better than similar back in the real world.
Well, here is your chance to sound off. (No flaming allowed) For example, last year we finally hit the Miss Lucy Sunday brunch and were underwhelmed by the whole thing i.e. the "specials" that were anything but, the talent of the "jazz combo", etc.
Conversely, there are other things that maybe DON'T get the props they deserve, like Sun Dog Cafe in Mongoose Junction, who serve up consistently wonderful casual food and is great to combine with some shopping when we need a break from the midday sun. So good we hit it twice for lunch last year.
So what's your two cents ???”
I see that the 07 MO/MU thread has 107 replies and over 25k views(!). Folks did unload on some of the “institutions” of the island.
Hopefully posts like yours and threads like that helped newbies make some better choices and old hands try some new stuff.
When we come to place where the sea and the sky collide
Throw me over the edge and let my spirit glide
Throw me over the edge and let my spirit glide