usvi-on-line
The College Thing
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sailorgirl
- Posts: 1644
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:03 pm
JMQ,
We were in a similar place four years ago. My husband's oldest daughter is very high achieving, but not terribly focused. She must have applied to 12 schools. She applied to Yale on early action and was accepted so she knew about that in November. Yale offered no money. In contrast she had been offered full rides at top tier schools, just about everywhere else... see where this is going?
Now some of you might say, how could you even consider turning down an Ivy League school? I see the point, but my thinking was this kid had absolutely no idea what she wanted to pursue in college, likely she would end up with a Liberal Arts degree of some kind and be headed for grad school. I felt that her options for grad school and, for that matter life after college, would be more open if she were not saddled with debt around 200K. My husband is a school teacher so his ability to fund and Ivy League education, with another one starting college two years later, was limited. He also felt that if she had an opportunity to go to a top tier college for free he could not justify saddling himself with the debt. He made this clear from the beginning of the application process. He made clear what he could afford and what he could not afford. Needless to say there was a lot of moaning and finger pointing about Daddy not being "willing" to pay for college. It was simple math, after paying out the child support, his personal living expenses and the mortgage on the house his aged mother lives in, there was nothing leftover, I was basically supporting us. Not that I minded that was the deal, I knew it when we got married.
Fast forward to April 2006, SD had a fist full of acceptances and manages to get Yale to come up with a 1/3 scholarship. As it turns out the following year Yale, following Princeton's lead, changes its financial aid formulas to finally recognize that the middle class should not have to mortgage their future for the privilege of attending (that and the bad publicity of sitting on a $42 Billion dollar endowment) and Yale wound up costing $10,000 a year! We just got very lucky.
So looking back was it all worth it. Im not sure. Jess had a great time the last four years, she traveled overseas, has meet some very interesting and impressive people, been exposed in a way she probably would not have been somewhere else and she will graduate in May as a poetry major! She has no plans what she will do come May 25th. Had this cost 200K I would not be a happy camper at all, but since it cost us only about $25,000 I have a different perspective. Will graduating from Yale make a difference only time will tell.
So my best advice is that you need to know what you are able to do financially and be clear about it with your child. This is the first real world adult type decision that she will make and she needs to be clear about the potential consequences. My other advice is this too shall pass, just keep the knees bent and go with the flow. They are teens and they change their minds like the breeze.
We were in a similar place four years ago. My husband's oldest daughter is very high achieving, but not terribly focused. She must have applied to 12 schools. She applied to Yale on early action and was accepted so she knew about that in November. Yale offered no money. In contrast she had been offered full rides at top tier schools, just about everywhere else... see where this is going?
Now some of you might say, how could you even consider turning down an Ivy League school? I see the point, but my thinking was this kid had absolutely no idea what she wanted to pursue in college, likely she would end up with a Liberal Arts degree of some kind and be headed for grad school. I felt that her options for grad school and, for that matter life after college, would be more open if she were not saddled with debt around 200K. My husband is a school teacher so his ability to fund and Ivy League education, with another one starting college two years later, was limited. He also felt that if she had an opportunity to go to a top tier college for free he could not justify saddling himself with the debt. He made this clear from the beginning of the application process. He made clear what he could afford and what he could not afford. Needless to say there was a lot of moaning and finger pointing about Daddy not being "willing" to pay for college. It was simple math, after paying out the child support, his personal living expenses and the mortgage on the house his aged mother lives in, there was nothing leftover, I was basically supporting us. Not that I minded that was the deal, I knew it when we got married.
Fast forward to April 2006, SD had a fist full of acceptances and manages to get Yale to come up with a 1/3 scholarship. As it turns out the following year Yale, following Princeton's lead, changes its financial aid formulas to finally recognize that the middle class should not have to mortgage their future for the privilege of attending (that and the bad publicity of sitting on a $42 Billion dollar endowment) and Yale wound up costing $10,000 a year! We just got very lucky.
So looking back was it all worth it. Im not sure. Jess had a great time the last four years, she traveled overseas, has meet some very interesting and impressive people, been exposed in a way she probably would not have been somewhere else and she will graduate in May as a poetry major! She has no plans what she will do come May 25th. Had this cost 200K I would not be a happy camper at all, but since it cost us only about $25,000 I have a different perspective. Will graduating from Yale make a difference only time will tell.
So my best advice is that you need to know what you are able to do financially and be clear about it with your child. This is the first real world adult type decision that she will make and she needs to be clear about the potential consequences. My other advice is this too shall pass, just keep the knees bent and go with the flow. They are teens and they change their minds like the breeze.
Pip - preaching to the choir. I went to Cook College (now known as the School of Environmental and Biological Scieneces or RU SEBS) and it wasnt as big feeling as the College Ave campus or Busch/Livingston. It had more of a mix of the small school vibe mixed with the big university vibe, being it was isolated somewhat over by Passion Puddle and the pig farm off College Farm Road on the other side of town.pipanale wrote:I went to RU and got into Trenton State (This is in 1992)
Rutgers will chew up a kid who's not prepared to go to a huge school. I saw it happen. My wife chose a small school in NY because RU freaked her the hell out.
In 1992...I did not like Trenton State. At the time, it was a huge commuter school. I was not going to live at home, and the campus life (keep in mind...1991) was horrible.
Personally...I would not recommend Rutgers. I hated the place. It was awful. Some people love it, but you're going to a huge school with all of the RU wackiness (buses, campuses, etc)
Just my $.02
And, yes thankfully TCNJ has come a long way culturally and academically (you would surprised how much harder it is to get in there now) from its Trenton State days but no doubt still has a heavy Jersey vibe and all that entails.
It is certainly more career orientated than the warm and fuzzy liberal arts schools. It also has a new $6M library that is the by far best we've seen on our college tours. That made me feel good - at least our NJ tax dollars has done one thing good in recent years.
When we come to place where the sea and the sky collide
Throw me over the edge and let my spirit glide
Throw me over the edge and let my spirit glide
SG – thanks for the story. We are trying NOT to make it about the money, but how can it not be?
Re the Ivys, the hardest thing about them might be getting in, so that was quite the accomplishment. The dirty secret about the Ivys is that 40% of admits go to legacies, athletes, and “development” types (i.e. families with mega money who are likely to be future donors). So, if you don’t fall into one of those categories and are just another top 1% kid, your real Ivy chances are slim and none.
Speaking of Yale of you seen this great youtube video? Its a hoot and a half. Anybody who has been on a college tour will really appreciate.
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tGn3-RW8Ajk&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tGn3-RW8Ajk&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
Re the Ivys, the hardest thing about them might be getting in, so that was quite the accomplishment. The dirty secret about the Ivys is that 40% of admits go to legacies, athletes, and “development” types (i.e. families with mega money who are likely to be future donors). So, if you don’t fall into one of those categories and are just another top 1% kid, your real Ivy chances are slim and none.
Speaking of Yale of you seen this great youtube video? Its a hoot and a half. Anybody who has been on a college tour will really appreciate.
<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/tGn3-RW8Ajk&hl ... ram><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/tGn3-RW8Ajk&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>
When we come to place where the sea and the sky collide
Throw me over the edge and let my spirit glide
Throw me over the edge and let my spirit glide
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Marcia (Mrs. Pete)
- Posts: 1576
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:40 pm
- Location: Madison Area, Wisconsin
That video is a hoot. I swear, I could give college tours for any school, I've been to enough, they are all essentially the same. And, if I have to see another admissions volunteer walk backwards, I'll gag.
You are getting some really great advice here, jmq. Hope it's helping.
Where was Dr. Spock when it came to anything other than weaning or potty training?
You are getting some really great advice here, jmq. Hope it's helping.
Where was Dr. Spock when it came to anything other than weaning or potty training?
Marcia (Mrs. Pete)
Missing St. John. As always.
Missing St. John. As always.
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sailorgirl
- Posts: 1644
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:03 pm
Now that was a funny video! I can't be sure whether the video is supposed to be a parody or serious, because up there it is like they all drank the Yale Kool Aid. The boy who took us around for the campus tour was seriously as Rah Rah as the protaganist in the vid clip.
It can be a very daunting task if your heart is set on an Ivy. Truth be told she never even thought about an Ivy until the summer before her senior year. She wanted to go see Weslyean and on the way back we passed the exit for Yale so we pulled off on a lark. She was smitten, but never really beleived she had a real chance. Obviuoslsy we were not one of the 40%, but she was at the top of her HS class with near perfect SATS so she must have fit into some other demographic they were looking for.
It can be a very daunting task if your heart is set on an Ivy. Truth be told she never even thought about an Ivy until the summer before her senior year. She wanted to go see Weslyean and on the way back we passed the exit for Yale so we pulled off on a lark. She was smitten, but never really beleived she had a real chance. Obviuoslsy we were not one of the 40%, but she was at the top of her HS class with near perfect SATS so she must have fit into some other demographic they were looking for.
Good to hear about TCNJ. What a pile of crap it was nearly 20 years ago.
Yes...I remain bitter about what my parents did to me:
I went to an elite private HS in NJ. By the time my Junior Year rolled around, my parents declared "You're going to Rutgers"
Me: WTF?
Them: You've wasted our money. Go to a State School.
I was permitted to apply to RU, Trenton State and FDU. They all happily accepted me based on where I went to HS. I ended up detesting all 4 years of college and simply wanted to graduate, get married, and start life.
Bottom line: Don't make ridiculous statements that will push your children away.
Of course, that applies to more than college decisions.
Yes...I remain bitter about what my parents did to me:
I went to an elite private HS in NJ. By the time my Junior Year rolled around, my parents declared "You're going to Rutgers"
Me: WTF?
Them: You've wasted our money. Go to a State School.
I was permitted to apply to RU, Trenton State and FDU. They all happily accepted me based on where I went to HS. I ended up detesting all 4 years of college and simply wanted to graduate, get married, and start life.
Bottom line: Don't make ridiculous statements that will push your children away.
Of course, that applies to more than college decisions.
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Marcia (Mrs. Pete)
- Posts: 1576
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:40 pm
- Location: Madison Area, Wisconsin
pipanale wrote:Good to hear about TCNJ. What a pile of crap it was nearly 20 years ago.
Yes...I remain bitter about what my parents did to me:
I went to an elite private HS in NJ. By the time my Junior Year rolled around, my parents declared "You're going to Rutgers"
Me: WTF?
Them: You've wasted our money. Go to a State School.
I was permitted to apply to RU, Trenton State and FDU. They all happily accepted me based on where I went to HS. I ended up detesting all 4 years of college and simply wanted to graduate, get married, and start life.
Bottom line: Don't make ridiculous statements that will push your children away.
Of course, that applies to more than college decisions.
That is the most sound advice I've seen all day. Don't push. DO. NOT. PUSH.
Marcia (Mrs. Pete)
Missing St. John. As always.
Missing St. John. As always.
We're just looking at highschools now, but future college options figure into that decision. Should we continue to spend $27k on a prep school (day student) or are there public schools in our area that will serve him just as well?
The head of our N-8 school told us that many of the Ivy spots are no longer going to the independent/private school grads, but to kids from the public school system (there was mention of private schools becoming too "precious") I did a quick check and found that one of the state's best public HSs sent more kids to the Ivy League schools in 2008 or 2009 than the area prep schools did.
And then I remind myself that an Ivy League school isn't necessarily the goal, but it would certainly be nice to have the option
The head of our N-8 school told us that many of the Ivy spots are no longer going to the independent/private school grads, but to kids from the public school system (there was mention of private schools becoming too "precious") I did a quick check and found that one of the state's best public HSs sent more kids to the Ivy League schools in 2008 or 2009 than the area prep schools did.
And then I remind myself that an Ivy League school isn't necessarily the goal, but it would certainly be nice to have the option
jmg,
Did I miss what your soon to be college bound wants to major in or a general idea? My youngest wasn't the brightest bulb in HS. But she managed to get herself into CSU and picked a great major. Restaurant and hotel management. It's an industry that isn't going out of business. Next promotion will mean 6 figures at the young age of 28. And the perks for us aren't bad either.
Emphasize that a bachelor's degree CAN be done in 4 years and no more. Summer classes, whatever it takes. Time will fly by and the next thing you know, you're at graduation and you've done all you can to get them through the first quarter of their lifetime.
I also agree...don't push. Let it evolve. If it goes astray...then it's time to step in.
P.S. We were firm believers in no student loans. We did whatever we had to to pay for both girls college education..with the stipulation that they finished in 4 years. It was a great incentive. Cost was apx $100,000 with r/b for both. Well worth it. No regrets.
Did I miss what your soon to be college bound wants to major in or a general idea? My youngest wasn't the brightest bulb in HS. But she managed to get herself into CSU and picked a great major. Restaurant and hotel management. It's an industry that isn't going out of business. Next promotion will mean 6 figures at the young age of 28. And the perks for us aren't bad either.
Emphasize that a bachelor's degree CAN be done in 4 years and no more. Summer classes, whatever it takes. Time will fly by and the next thing you know, you're at graduation and you've done all you can to get them through the first quarter of their lifetime.
I also agree...don't push. Let it evolve. If it goes astray...then it's time to step in.
P.S. We were firm believers in no student loans. We did whatever we had to to pay for both girls college education..with the stipulation that they finished in 4 years. It was a great incentive. Cost was apx $100,000 with r/b for both. Well worth it. No regrets.
Terry - indeed thats a great practical choice of major. Glad its working out.
My daughter likes "science" (chemistry in particular) but I wish she "got" physics. Imagine being a female majoring in engineering and minoring in Chinese. Talk about opportunity. It will take a few more bridges to collapse, but eventually we'll have to replace our infrastructure and design and build stuff again.
She also likes and excels at her summer camp counselor job and a middle school mentoring program they run out of the HS, so she is also considering teaching. It would be kind of shame if that ability to connect with people was bottled up in a research lab somewhere.
So we did try to select schools with those things in mind. Its notable that some of the smaller liberal arts schools have really upped their games in science in the past 10 yrs. in order to compete with the big research universities.
My daughter likes "science" (chemistry in particular) but I wish she "got" physics. Imagine being a female majoring in engineering and minoring in Chinese. Talk about opportunity. It will take a few more bridges to collapse, but eventually we'll have to replace our infrastructure and design and build stuff again.
She also likes and excels at her summer camp counselor job and a middle school mentoring program they run out of the HS, so she is also considering teaching. It would be kind of shame if that ability to connect with people was bottled up in a research lab somewhere.
So we did try to select schools with those things in mind. Its notable that some of the smaller liberal arts schools have really upped their games in science in the past 10 yrs. in order to compete with the big research universities.
When we come to place where the sea and the sky collide
Throw me over the edge and let my spirit glide
Throw me over the edge and let my spirit glide
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sailorgirl
- Posts: 1644
- Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:03 pm
KatieH wrote:We're just looking at highschools now, but future college options figure into that decision. Should we continue to spend $27k on a prep school (day student) or are there public schools in our area that will serve him just as well?
The head of our N-8 school told us that many of the Ivy spots are no longer going to the independent/private school grads, but to kids from the public school system (there was mention of private schools becoming too "precious") I did a quick check and found that one of the state's best public HSs sent more kids to the Ivy League schools in 2008 or 2009 than the area prep schools did.
And then I remind myself that an Ivy League school isn't necessarily the goal, but it would certainly be nice to have the option
The odds of Ivy admissions are just geting so long. Something like less than 10% admission rate. Its insane.
jmq, (sorry missed the q)
In my job I employ hundreds of sub teachers. (over 1,000) Nation wide most districts have more sub teachers than they ever needed. Budgets are being cut State wide. I have more math and science subs than I've ever had. I can throw a rock and hit an Elem Ed. teacher. But that will change and science is a great major. Any college bound student thinking about majoring in education needs to go into their districts HR dept and talk to them about what hiring will be taking place in the next 5 years.
As far as bridges and infrastructures. I agree that there is a need. But again, have your student check out local funding projections for that area into the future. Every State is different.
Shoot for the moon and hope for the best! Chances are they'll land somewhere over the 60% range. Most important is to let her live her dream of what she aspires to be.
In my job I employ hundreds of sub teachers. (over 1,000) Nation wide most districts have more sub teachers than they ever needed. Budgets are being cut State wide. I have more math and science subs than I've ever had. I can throw a rock and hit an Elem Ed. teacher. But that will change and science is a great major. Any college bound student thinking about majoring in education needs to go into their districts HR dept and talk to them about what hiring will be taking place in the next 5 years.
As far as bridges and infrastructures. I agree that there is a need. But again, have your student check out local funding projections for that area into the future. Every State is different.
Shoot for the moon and hope for the best! Chances are they'll land somewhere over the 60% range. Most important is to let her live her dream of what she aspires to be.
Yes it is. The university I attended (small, private, liberal arts) just built a huge, expensive science center. It is amazing. The dean said interest from prospective students interested in the sciences is up over 125% since completion.jmq wrote:Its notable that some of the smaller liberal arts schools have really upped their games in science in the past 10 yrs. in order to compete with the big research universities.