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[toes in the sand]

Toes--

Huh?

Seems to be something I'm missing.

And this forum is so unique in having sort of resident trolls. Trolls usually hit and run. Pop up on forum, jerk people around, create a bit of a mess, then disappear. This forum has resident trolls who appear periodically to provoke, then lay low for a while before resurfacing.

Huh?

Toesin--

FYI--Check to see if your "Submit" button is maybe stuck or something. It seems to have resubmitted a previous post of yours.

Nope, nothin stuck here. Something wrong on your end?

[Teresa_Rae]

And yes, there is a way to lose your salvation.

I'm not sure on this one but it is an often pondered subject among Christians.

Even after accepting Christ we all continue to sin for the rest of our lives. Even a goody-goody is very, very far from perfect compared to Jesus. Now if people completely turn their backs to God and walk away from Him, I guess that's one thing, but I tend to think that the Holy Spirit is pretty good at keeping believers from giving God the middle finger.

[Lex]

Toesin--

It seems that you're trying to communicate something. And it seems that you're addressing it to me. You're clearly working at it---putting in effort and time. You're persistent. But I'm not making any sense of it. I don't know what more to say.

[cypressgirl]

And yes, there is a way to lose your salvation.

I'm not sure on this one but it is an often pondered subject among Christians.

Even after accepting Christ we all continue to sin for the rest of our lives. Even a goody-goody is very, very far from perfect compared to Jesus. Now if people completely turn their backs to God and walk away from Him, I guess that's one thing, but I tend to think that the Holy Spirit is pretty good at keeping believers from giving God the middle finger.

Teresa Rae, you are really going to stir up the pot if you bring talk of the Holy Spirit into the discussion. I totally understand what you are talking about......it's the power of the Holy Spirit that convicts us and makes us want to be pleasing to God. I do believe a person can be a serial killer and find salvation before the switch is pulled, if he confesses his sins and professes his belief in Jesus. There are no last chances until we've taken our last breath. God is so forgiving and loves us so much. Way more than we deserve. I find myself going in and out of being my best. These kinds of discussions really help me.

I have spent the last few days reading The Power of Positive Thinking. It's almost as old as I am, but it is so powerful. In the chapter titled Prescription for Heartache, he quotes an amazing scripture that almost brought me to tears and I'll share it with you...1 Corinthians 2:9 Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love Him.

Wow, I'm going to hold Him to that!! That's good stuff.

[flip-flop]

I do believe a person can be a serial killer and find salvation before the switch is pulled, if he confesses his sins and professes his belief in Jesus.

See that is where it goes off the rails for me. I'd prefer the average guy/gal who NEVER accepts Jesus Christ as his personal savior to the serial killer who does. I just can't get my heart and mind around a God (your version not mine) who could forgive one but not the other simply because they saw the err of their ways!

SOME actions (sin, wrongs, whatever) are unforgivable. I would put serial killing in that category. Being Gay ... and staying Gay forever ... pales in comparison to that.

I am more concerned with doing right in the here and now than saving my eternal soul or going to heaven.

In fact, based on who it appears will be up there I am more than fine with the alternative.

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[cypressgirl]

I do believe a person can be a serial killer and find salvation before the switch is pulled, if he confesses his sins and professes his belief in Jesus.

See that is where it goes off the rails for me. I'd prefer the average guy/gal who NEVER accepts Jesus Christ as his personal savior to the serial killer who does. I just can't get my heart and mind around a God (your version not mine) who could forgive one but not the other simply because they saw the err of their ways!

SOME actions (sin, wrongs, whatever) are unforgivable. I would put serial killing in that category. Being Gay ... and staying Gay forever ... pales in comparison to that.

I am more concerned with doing right in the here and now than saving my eternal soul or going to heaven.

In fact, based on who it appears will be up there I am more than fine with the alternative.

I don't totally understand it either, but in God's eyes, sin is sin, there is no degree of sin. I could never forgive a serial killer for killing a friend or loved one either, but I'm not God. Yes, being gay totally pales in comparison to being a serial killer, in my eyes. Totally. I'm not saying being gay is the worst thing imaginable. I have had wonderful gay friends throughout the years. Before I was a Christian, I didn't think it was a big deal either. But I know now that God created marriage as a gift to us. He does not make arbitrary laws for no reason than to give us a hard time and make life difficult. He gives us rules to make our lives less complcated and painful, and to honor Him. Like I said, I didn't make the rules. If they were different, I'd abide by those too.

You may not be concerned with your soul and going to heaven now, but like the old saying goes, there are no athiests in fox holes. Life is just a moment, eternity is forever. I really hope you don't experience "the alternative".

I think the forum is probably tired of this debate and we've worn out our welcome. Again, let's agree to disagree and move on.

[Pete (Mr. Marcia)]

SJfromNJ wrote: I do know what the Bible says about how to get to heaven. Rememer this, you can not earn you way to heaven. The price has been paid for you alredy. I guess the question for them is did they accept the invitation?

You have told me in the above post and elsewhere that entry to heaven is not related to whether the individual has sinned. Because, as you have said, Christ already has died for our sins, i.e., that's what you meant above by, "the price has been paid for you already." Instead, to get to heaven, one needs to embrace Christ and "accept" his invitation.



So, let me ask you this: if a homosexual were to embrace Christ and accept his invitation, could the homosexual get into heaven? And, if god would bestow upon homosexuals a gift as great as heaven, do you think that he would really care if they were allowed to get married while still on earth? And finally, if your god wouldn't care, why are you disagreeing with him?

I think you are mistaken Pete. Sin is what separates us from God. You cant earn your way to heaven by doing good deeds, however doing good is a result of doing God will. I think you are confused that even though we sin, those of us who believe in God and have been cleansed of our sin are continually cleansed by the blood of Jesus. These are somewhat complex ideas for non belivers to grasp. A homosexual who repents of thier sins and is baptized into Christ and then goes back to living a homosexual life would not be accepted into heaven. And yes, there is a way to lose your salvation.

If a homosexual repented of all his or her sin and accepted Jesus as his or her savior, he or she would be accepted into heaven and there would be much rejoycing in heaven! Remember Pete its your sin, not the person, which separates us from God. God would not and could not recognize same sex marriage.

You told me that the price of going to heaven already has been paid by jesus and that we all are sinners. You also said that jesus paid for our sins by dying on the cross. And, lastly, that all we needed to do was accept christ and we would get into heaven.

So, are you now saying that christ did not pay the price for us? And, if we are all sinners, as you concede, then how do any of us get into heaven?

It's all very confusing and it seems to be somewhat amorphous.

It would be nice if your god could have love for those who love, despite who they love.

[toes in the sand]

Toesin--

It seems that you're trying to communicate something. And it seems that you're addressing it to me. You're clearly working at it---putting in effort and time. You're persistent. But I'm not making any sense of it. I don't know what more to say.

Lex,
I have asked you in open forum and in a PM if it is I that you are calling a troll. Your accusations of trolling have followed my postings in two different threads. Coupled with your unwillingness to name your "troll" either in public or in private I conclude that you are directing your accusations at myself. I am only using your own words to point out that your description of a resident troll fit your posts in this thread. If you don't like seeing your words repeated, perhaps either a clarification or an apology is in order.

[Pete (Mr. Marcia)]

Looks like Toes and Lex are fighting in a different corner of the sandbox.

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[Pete (Mr. Marcia)]

Let me try this approach.

We are both in court arrested of the same crime. The judge is Jesus. Since Jesus knows me very well, he cuts me some slack and lets me off. You he does not know at all and he give you the maximum.

God sees us differently when we accept his forgivness. Repenting of sin is part of the deal. The price that was payed was Jesus life. The reality is you and I deserve the cross but Jesus went there for us in hope we will turn to him. God gives us free will to decide.

Jesus died for the forgivness of sin. Once you accept Christ and your sins are forgiven, heaven awaits. If you do not accept Christ, no sins are forgiven. Bring you kevlar suit.

I'd be asking for a change of venue, that's what I'd be doing.

Is Ghandi wearing kevlar?

[Lex]

One last thing. There seems to be no way to know if Gandhi is in hell and if the Dalai Lama will be going there if he doesn't make some serious changes, but it seems that could be possible given how the system may work. Gives me pause to consider that a repentant serial killer/rapist/cannibal would be going to heaven while the Dalai Lama would go to hell and that Gandhi is already there. Just doesn't seem to me that it would work like that, but who knows.

I also noticed that there's been no mention of Purgatory or Limbo. I learned of them in parochial school, so maybe they're Roman Catholic concepts. Purgatory was a place where sinners whose sins were not too severe would go for a while to burn off their sins (there were fires there, as in hell) after which they could go on to heaven. The Church distinguished between mortal and venial sins, but I don't remember if if that's what determined if someone qualified for purgatory or if they had to go to hell.

Limbo was a place that had no punishments, but God was not present there and those who went to Limbo would never experience God's presence. I remember that Limbo was where the little pagan babies went.

I don't know if those options were limited to Catholicism, or even if they still exist. They may have been consolidated into a simple heaven or hell disposition. They did offer some options for some of the less straightforward cases.

[hawksnestbay]

I am afraid that the off topic forum, may be purgatory.

On a related note, I do have a fantasy regarding two female forum members, a neat sheet, and a bottle of sun tan lotion.