usvi-on-line
Tourist killed after being caught in gang crossfire
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Pete (Mr. Marcia)
- Posts: 1471
- Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2006 4:48 pm
- Location: Madison, Wisconsin
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IslandElle
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2009 8:21 pm
- Location: Dallas
I know I am a "new" member but I really want to chime in on this. I agree with XOXO totally on all this.
We just had our first trip to STJ back in April and this is one of the things that was bothering us about STJ. I decided not to post a trip report because I felt like I wouldn't really be telling the truth about our experience if I left these thoughts out but I didn't want to be put through the ringer by other forum members either. We know there is crime everywhere, I was born and raised in Dallas and have lived in downtown and other suspect areas, and we have done a fair amount of traveling. There was just a different feeling on STJ that made us all uneasy. My husband called it the "angry glare" and we seemed to get it from the younger men aged 17 -25 every single time we were in Cruz Bay. We would park at Conrad's and walk to where ever we were going and I always felt very nervous making that walk, even during the day. Actually it was almost worse during the day. We were offered drugs numerous times, guys would make remarks as we passed, we would see a lot of homeless people in the park that were either passed out or drunk stumbling around, etc. This coupled with the horrible attitude we would encounter in the grocery store or video store just made for an overall negative vibe. I don't understand it. We greeted everyone the proper way, we are not rude people, it was all totally uncalled for. They almost seemed bitter for some reason. Maybe it's that they have to spend $11.00 on a gallon of milk. I know that would make me bitter! lol I also spent one day shopping on STT with my girlfriend and 2 cab drivers told us we should head back before it got dark to avoid being out by ourselves. That is a major RED flag to me.
Once we got to VG it was totally different. Now, I know there is crime there, the place we stayed had been broken into previously, so like I said and everyone else has mentioned, crime is everywhere, but the people were so much different. Very kind, friendly, no bad attitude and no angry glares.
Back to STJ. We did pick up a hitchhiker. We really like to get into the way of life in whatever place we are visiting. He was a young kid that was working at Cinnamon Bay and needed a ride back to Cruz Bay. I know we wouldn't of picked up just anyone though. We felt safe enough to do that, and we will go back because STJ is beautiful and I never felt unsafe but I felt that there were times in Cruz Bay that something could go wrong at any moment if we weren't really paying attention.
I feel like I am rambling now, but my point is that I feel like some people are turning a blind eye to the issues on STJ. Not the police or the crime necessarily but the people. Well, and maybe the crime too a bit.
We just had our first trip to STJ back in April and this is one of the things that was bothering us about STJ. I decided not to post a trip report because I felt like I wouldn't really be telling the truth about our experience if I left these thoughts out but I didn't want to be put through the ringer by other forum members either. We know there is crime everywhere, I was born and raised in Dallas and have lived in downtown and other suspect areas, and we have done a fair amount of traveling. There was just a different feeling on STJ that made us all uneasy. My husband called it the "angry glare" and we seemed to get it from the younger men aged 17 -25 every single time we were in Cruz Bay. We would park at Conrad's and walk to where ever we were going and I always felt very nervous making that walk, even during the day. Actually it was almost worse during the day. We were offered drugs numerous times, guys would make remarks as we passed, we would see a lot of homeless people in the park that were either passed out or drunk stumbling around, etc. This coupled with the horrible attitude we would encounter in the grocery store or video store just made for an overall negative vibe. I don't understand it. We greeted everyone the proper way, we are not rude people, it was all totally uncalled for. They almost seemed bitter for some reason. Maybe it's that they have to spend $11.00 on a gallon of milk. I know that would make me bitter! lol I also spent one day shopping on STT with my girlfriend and 2 cab drivers told us we should head back before it got dark to avoid being out by ourselves. That is a major RED flag to me.
Once we got to VG it was totally different. Now, I know there is crime there, the place we stayed had been broken into previously, so like I said and everyone else has mentioned, crime is everywhere, but the people were so much different. Very kind, friendly, no bad attitude and no angry glares.
Back to STJ. We did pick up a hitchhiker. We really like to get into the way of life in whatever place we are visiting. He was a young kid that was working at Cinnamon Bay and needed a ride back to Cruz Bay. I know we wouldn't of picked up just anyone though. We felt safe enough to do that, and we will go back because STJ is beautiful and I never felt unsafe but I felt that there were times in Cruz Bay that something could go wrong at any moment if we weren't really paying attention.
I feel like I am rambling now, but my point is that I feel like some people are turning a blind eye to the issues on STJ. Not the police or the crime necessarily but the people. Well, and maybe the crime too a bit.
Wow, this is a very interesting read. I am kind of a STJ evangelist so maybe it clouds my vision but I have been probably 6 - 7 times now starting in 2000 and have never gotten an angry glare or really any negative vibe at all.
We rent from Conrad, hang out in Cruz Bay (usually during the day if ever as we've kind of become Coral bay people), travel all over the island and have never felt unsafe at all.
Please don't mistake me for pollyanna. I am HYPERSENSITIVE to danger and am always 100% aware of my surroundings or with people who are (that one time at Miss Lucy's...). We love to travel and I travel a bit for work - St. Martin, St Barths, Bermuda, Virgin Gorda, Jost, Jamaica, and all over the states - NYC, Boston, Philly, San Francisco, Miami and the most unsafe I ever have felt ANYWHERE was definitely in Miami Beach! We actually had a cop come up to us at a stop light where we were waiting to turn left and tell us "I don't know where you are going but you do NOT want to turn left here." Heck, going into DC for dinner one time my husband got approached by a guy who was bleeding and asking for money. That doesn't mean I won't go into the wonderful city I live so close to ever again.
I love STJ. This was a tragedy on STT that unfortunately could befall any of us in any major city or honestly even in a rural community. There was a horrible boating accident in my tiny hometown over the holiday that killed 2 people and injured 9 others. No matter where you are you simply cannot protect yourself from every single potential danger. If you are you are not really living, in my humble opinion.
Now, that said, I don't plan to stay on STT any longer than I really have to, but that is less because of crime (Though that is certainly part of it) and more because its just not my scene.
We rent from Conrad, hang out in Cruz Bay (usually during the day if ever as we've kind of become Coral bay people), travel all over the island and have never felt unsafe at all.
Please don't mistake me for pollyanna. I am HYPERSENSITIVE to danger and am always 100% aware of my surroundings or with people who are (that one time at Miss Lucy's...). We love to travel and I travel a bit for work - St. Martin, St Barths, Bermuda, Virgin Gorda, Jost, Jamaica, and all over the states - NYC, Boston, Philly, San Francisco, Miami and the most unsafe I ever have felt ANYWHERE was definitely in Miami Beach! We actually had a cop come up to us at a stop light where we were waiting to turn left and tell us "I don't know where you are going but you do NOT want to turn left here." Heck, going into DC for dinner one time my husband got approached by a guy who was bleeding and asking for money. That doesn't mean I won't go into the wonderful city I live so close to ever again.
I love STJ. This was a tragedy on STT that unfortunately could befall any of us in any major city or honestly even in a rural community. There was a horrible boating accident in my tiny hometown over the holiday that killed 2 people and injured 9 others. No matter where you are you simply cannot protect yourself from every single potential danger. If you are you are not really living, in my humble opinion.
Now, that said, I don't plan to stay on STT any longer than I really have to, but that is less because of crime (Though that is certainly part of it) and more because its just not my scene.
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Xislandgirl
- Posts: 4163
- Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:03 pm
- Location: Slightly left of center
Maybe I just look like a dork or maybe it is because some of the locals remember me but I have never been offered drugs. EVER. Even when I lived on island.
I have never felt unsafe, not when I lived on island as a single woman and walked home at night to Frank Bay. Not as a tourist during the day or at night.
I do have to say that as tourists, we should not tell residents of the island that they are turning a blind eye or ignoring the problem. We visit for a week or two at a time, they live it every day and how they choose to address the issues in their community is not for us to judge. It is my experience that most residents of STJ are very active in island issues and work very hard to ensure that the island is safe for them and for those visiting.
Everyone has a different comfort level, perhaps mine is higher than most. I agree with previous replies, that if you do not feel safe when you are on island then it is time to find a new destination. I will continue to visit STJ until that changes for me.
I have never felt unsafe, not when I lived on island as a single woman and walked home at night to Frank Bay. Not as a tourist during the day or at night.
I do have to say that as tourists, we should not tell residents of the island that they are turning a blind eye or ignoring the problem. We visit for a week or two at a time, they live it every day and how they choose to address the issues in their community is not for us to judge. It is my experience that most residents of STJ are very active in island issues and work very hard to ensure that the island is safe for them and for those visiting.
Everyone has a different comfort level, perhaps mine is higher than most. I agree with previous replies, that if you do not feel safe when you are on island then it is time to find a new destination. I will continue to visit STJ until that changes for me.
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California Girl
Well, I must be one of the cool kids because this past trip is the only time I haven't been approached by someone selling in Cruz Bay.
We were also approached on White Bay in March, once by a dealer and once by a really drunk tourist wanting to know if I knew of anyone selling. I pointed him in the right direction.
None of these past "approaches" bothered me as they quickly and quietly moved on when I said no thanks.
BTW, I am not cool, at all. I would wonder how many late-30-something moms in their mom-shorts and LLBean t-shirts actually buy pot from strangers on the street? Just saying, I don't think I fit the normal demographic.
We were also approached on White Bay in March, once by a dealer and once by a really drunk tourist wanting to know if I knew of anyone selling. I pointed him in the right direction.
None of these past "approaches" bothered me as they quickly and quietly moved on when I said no thanks.
BTW, I am not cool, at all. I would wonder how many late-30-something moms in their mom-shorts and LLBean t-shirts actually buy pot from strangers on the street? Just saying, I don't think I fit the normal demographic.
Pssst...Pia, come here....I got somethin I want to offer you.......shhhhh.....oh, and by the way, I need to see your dork membership card......Pia wrote:I must be a dork as well as I have never EVER been offered drugs in the 6 years of living here - X we can start a Dork Club
-Bert - a little levity on this dark subject.....
The liver is evil, it must be punished!
It seems like the content of this thread has been all over the place.
I can honestly say that I have never been offered pot anywhere but Coki. On the same note, we've met alot of locals there and I've always felt pretty safe. We go back year after year and we look for the same people.
Will we go there again? Hell yeah, it's a great snorkeling beach.
As far as Jorge? Nobody can judge him unless you know him. I love Jorge and I love his smile and I respect how he feels. I don't have to judge him.
Now...let's get on with it.
I can honestly say that I have never been offered pot anywhere but Coki. On the same note, we've met alot of locals there and I've always felt pretty safe. We go back year after year and we look for the same people.
Will we go there again? Hell yeah, it's a great snorkeling beach.
As far as Jorge? Nobody can judge him unless you know him. I love Jorge and I love his smile and I respect how he feels. I don't have to judge him.
Now...let's get on with it.
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GraysonDave
- Posts: 479
- Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:41 am
- Location: Georgia
Several thoughts as I read back through...
We can only hope that the result of this tragic event is a real effort to make sure it doesn't happen again. That'll take local politicians, local residents, local businesses, and local police. The threat of lost tourism dollars, if not the reverence for human life, may be enough to spur needed change.
Crime does indeed happen everywhere. Last week in my (upper?)-middle class neighborhood two trucks were broken into. Basically, one must be aware of his surroundings. No amount of caution could have helped that little girl though.
I was approached to buy some weed in Cruz Bay last visit. I am a 51-year-old guy who doesn't look nearly as cool as he wishes he did. I declined, but I bet those guys have a high enough hit rate to justify continuing to ask. Plenty of folks my age still smoke occasionally and I imagine a lot of folks who are on vacation and given the opportunity would give it a shot for old times sake.
The "angry glare" comment is an apt description for what I experience at times. It is a practiced look intentionally designed to make the recipient feel intimidated. It doesn't happen just in the islands.
I certainly hope to visit again some day. St. John is a terrific place. I'm hoping the fine people who live there will make sure it doesn't succumb to the problems of some other Caribbean places.
We can only hope that the result of this tragic event is a real effort to make sure it doesn't happen again. That'll take local politicians, local residents, local businesses, and local police. The threat of lost tourism dollars, if not the reverence for human life, may be enough to spur needed change.
Crime does indeed happen everywhere. Last week in my (upper?)-middle class neighborhood two trucks were broken into. Basically, one must be aware of his surroundings. No amount of caution could have helped that little girl though.
I was approached to buy some weed in Cruz Bay last visit. I am a 51-year-old guy who doesn't look nearly as cool as he wishes he did. I declined, but I bet those guys have a high enough hit rate to justify continuing to ask. Plenty of folks my age still smoke occasionally and I imagine a lot of folks who are on vacation and given the opportunity would give it a shot for old times sake.
The "angry glare" comment is an apt description for what I experience at times. It is a practiced look intentionally designed to make the recipient feel intimidated. It doesn't happen just in the islands.
I certainly hope to visit again some day. St. John is a terrific place. I'm hoping the fine people who live there will make sure it doesn't succumb to the problems of some other Caribbean places.