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[cypressgirl]

I know I'm a red neck, being from Texas and all, you have to expect we're a bunch of gun totin', church goin', homophobes, but I didn't realize Penn. had red necks too. That crazy guy........Mertha?........he enlightened me.

Yeah cypress...well, you may recall it was the "brilliant" democratic strategist, James Carville (aka "The Ragin' Cajun) who said this about Pennsylvania:

"To me, Pennsylvania has always been Philadelphia on one side, Pittsburgh on the other, with Alabama in the middle".

Consider the source........no big surprise there.

[Lulu76]

I deleted that post because I realized that I posted in haste and anger. I really am a nice person, and I just don't feel like arguing. I shot from the hip and realized perhaps I was being unfair and deleted those comments. I guess you saw them, and I'm sorry if you were offended.

I think we'll see what most Americans hold dear in just a few days. I don't care if people agree with me or not, because I make my decisions based on a moral belief system that is deeply ingrained in my conscience, just like I'm sure you do as well. While Obama is not my ideal candidate, he represents my beliefs more closely. There's no soundbite or innuendo that's going to change my belief system, so there's no point in arguing.

I have a degree in American politics. You'd be surprised what Americans could do if we put our minds to it and worked together for the common good. Unfortunately, I doubt that will ever happen because there are too many special interests with deep pocketbooks.

[soxfan22]

I don't know why one would call someone a jerk, and then completely change their post? Interesting...I remember that happening last week too. Hmm. Think before we speak (or, before we press submit).

[Lulu76]

I was trying to be nice. But apparently I can't win for trying.

It's done. Go find someone else to argue with.

[soxfan22]

Fair enough Lulu - you and I can agree to disagree.

I will disagree that this next election is a referendum on what people hold dear. Unfortunately, and you know this based on your degree, most Americans don't follow this stuff as closely as you, I and other on this forum follow. They see a "change" moniker with little substance or explanation, and think that is what they need.

Do you think most people have studied marxism vs capitalism? Regardless of where you and I stand on those two...do you think most people have an understanding? Do you ever listen to these polls where folks are asked to name even one supreme court justice, and they just can't do it? Or, who wrote the emancipation proclamation...it's all crickets...people just don't know this stuff, because nobody cares anymore. I know you will vote Obama because he aligns with your ideals...That is fine, because you know what your ideals are. You do the research. I really don't belive most peopl who vote for Obama have any idea what it is we are about to get ourselves into.

[Lulu76]

As a political scientist, I am very frustrated by how some people select their candidates. That's why I like discussions like these and when folks like Jorge take the important step to hear all the info and ignore the soundbites. I just like political discourse about ideology and issues, and I don't need all the soundbites and personal attacks, whether they are from Carville, Coulter or anyone in between.

And P.S. I liked your capitalism vs. Marxism analogy. Not exactly accurate, but really, not too far off.

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[verjoy]

Lulu-

Please don't plead ignorance. Racism has definitely been inferred several times by more than one person.

[Lulu76]

I have had many conversations with many clergy members about these issues. I believe that Catholics cannot be one-issue voters. Even when the issue is "life," Republicans are not the clear-cut choice. Yes, abortion is immoral, but so is capital punishment, and I've seen very few Republicans who oppose the death penalty. So, it's not black and white on the issue of life.

Personally, I don't believe there's anyone in the world who's FOR abortion. I believe it's a difficult choice some people feel they have to make, and we need to pray for them. As a Catholic, I believe that abortion is morally wrong, but I do realize that not everyone in America is Catholic. What I love about this country is that we are all different, and no one religion (whether it's mine or someone else's) should dictate government policy.

And when I look at the tenets of Catholic Social Teaching and measure them against where the major U.S. parties stand, the Democrats are making strides toward all seven of them, not just one.

As for gay marriage, this is one place where I don't agree with the church. My best friend in the whole world is gay, and I don't like that he's treated like a second-class citizen. There are other issues I don't agree with the church on, like stem-cell research, but when I did my research on the candidates, I did see that McCain does support federal funding for that research.

[Lulu76]

Lulu-

Please don't plead ignorance. Racism has definitely been inferred several times by more than one person.

I am not pleading ignorance at all. I do believe that racism will play an issue in this election. I, myself, have mentioned the Bradley Effect on more than one occasion.

I do not, however, believe that any person on this forum believes and/or has said that all McCain supporters are McCain supporters because they are racists.

I also do not believe that anyone on this forum is voting based for McCain because he or she is a racist. Everyone here seems like really great people, and honestly the thought that anyone here could be a racist never crossed my mind until you mentioned it in your post before.

[Cid]

Who benefits from everyone arguing about religion, race, abortion, socialism, marxism, sexism, feminism, hillbillyism, leftism, rightism and on and on?

Is this what you really think about when you tuck your kids in at night? Are these issues that we deal with personally everyday in our lives?

Or do you think about whether they'll be able to afford college or be able to buy a house. Do you think about whether they'll grow up in a world at war?

While we all argue about ideology that ultimately doesn't matter the small group that shares power ensure any meaningful change never takes place. Thus ensuring their survival.

Judging by this thread I'd say my theory holds fairly true.

[soxfan22]

Lulu-

Please don't plead ignorance. Racism has definitely been inferred several times by more than one person.

I am not pleading ignorance at all. I do believe that racism will play an issue in this election. I, myself, have mentioned the Bradley Effect on more than one occasion.

I do not, however, believe that any person on this forum believes and/or has said that all McCain supporters are McCain supporters because they are racists.

I also do not believe that anyone on this forum is voting based for McCain because he or she is a racist. Everyone here seems like really great people, and honestly the thought that anyone here could be a racist never crossed my mind until you mentioned it in your post before.

Lulu, you are not mentioning the other "racism" component in this election. That is to say, blacks who vote for Obama only because he is partly black. That will be a large number - I believe the recent numbers were that 90-95% of black will vote Obama in this election. While the black vote historically (for the last 35 years) goes dem, it certainly is not by 90-95%.

I hope these two cancel each other out.

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[Pia]

OK Jorge

With the turn this thread has taken (to be expected) I have a simple solution for you - vote for Obama so you cancell out Barbara's vote for McCain - net no change.......cha ching

Luv ya

Pia

[soxfan22]

Pia - with all due respect, this thread turned when you invoked racism.

Somehow, until yesterday, we've had 4 or 5 HEATED political threads without the "R" word being mentioned or inferred. Nasty things were said (some by me), but nobody inferred that if you weren't voting Obama you might be a racist until you did so yesterday.