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[Marcia (Mrs. Pete)]

Thank you for your kind words Marcia. Sometimes I'm afraid if people think that I shouldn't intervene in the debat being a foreigner - it's just difficult to resist when it interest you.

Linne

This is a global economy and most of the issues raised here will reach far beyond the borders of the US. Your insight is extremely important. Thank you, Linne, for speaking your mind.

As an aside, I have always enjoyed your posts on the various trips you and your husband have taken. You certainly have seen a great deal more of this world than I. And, in many ways, this makes you considerably more enlightened than a number of the posters here, including me.

[loria]

Lulu,

Not to sing a sob story here....but I know all about needing health care.

My daughter has cerebral palsy and Crohn’s she lost her health care (which was horrible coverage anyway…but was something) last week when she was fired. We are taking it out of our pocket to pay for here COBRA…..because she can not afford to be without coverage as then….when she does find work again, the new health care wouldn’t cover pre-existing conditions.

I know all about it.

The problem is how does this get paid for without diminishing our present knowledge, skills and abilities in the medical profession? The best and brightest work here because they can get paid the best. (I know....the insurance and pharmacy companies have ruined it by overcharging on everything along with the horrible judges that let these hundred(s) million dollar lawsuits be awarded when a tragic accident did occur....but we still have the best for a reason. It is we pay them the best.)

david,
my heart goes out to your family--my mother had Crohns and it is truly debilitating--and on top of CP--ugh. however, pay and prestige are just part of the issue (and doctors in england and Canada make a fair wage)
however, much of our prestige comes from (and here i go again)
government funded research that goes into teaching hospitals and allows those doctors to do research and builds the knowledge base for the rest of us--
the system here is broken--and none of these systems are the greatest--healthcare doesn't act like other commodities-and itis unlikely that we'll move to a single payor plan soon--to many special interests (big pharma, insurance, you name it!)--the Massachusetts plan has had some success --but it stillis flawed --still coverage for those who have none --is, i believe, a responsibility of a civil society

[linne]

Thank you too Mr. Marcia
I like your attitude: It's a strenght if you dare to listen to others.

As Pete and I are about to send one child off to college next year and two more the following year at a cost of $50,000+ per year, per child, we know the expense of post high-school education.

I really think this is awfull and not to believe.
Our son has been 3 years in a sort of college and 5 years in a sort of university - like MBA -
and it haven't cost us anything. That's why we accept to pay a higher tax. We would have been able to pay for him, but other parents would not be able to pay for their children.

Linne

[Terry]

linne,
I love to read your posts.

On college education, it seems to be equal to the USA; paying out of their pocket or paying more in taxes for their child's college education. I for one, think that is a pretty good idea. The USA, for the most part, is sending high school students to college unprepared and under financed.

They are our future. We need to do more and I would pay higher taxes for that end result.

Please keep posting, as it is very interesting.

[Marcia (Mrs. Pete)]

[quote="linne"]
I like your attitude: It's a strenght if you dare to listen to others.

Listening is the most crucial part of any discourse. Speaking is easy. Listening is considerably more difficult.

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[bayer40601]

The facts are that the world community also believed there were WMD's in Iraq, not just Bush.

The difference is the American public was told there was irrefutable evidence that Iraq had WMDs. We were not told that President Bush "believed" there were WMDs in Iraq. That difference has cost the lives of over 4,000 young men and women. It didn't have to be.

[loria]

The facts are that the world community also believed there were WMD's in Iraq, not just Bush.

The difference is the American public was told there was irrefutable evidence that Iraq had WMDs. We were not told that President Bush "believed" there were WMDs in Iraq. That difference has cost the lives of over 4,000 young men and women. It didn't have to be.

and lets not also forget the nearly 100,000 (or more????) civilian casualties in Iraq--these obviously were not all american weapons related but they were Iraq war related

[verjoy]

Linne~

Thanks for responding.

I think SJ was saying that the intelligence budget was reduced and it affected the validity of the information.

My main point about the war was that if the draft is re-introduced, regardless of who is President, there will be a major backlash. As of now, only Rep.Charles Rangel-Democrat has brought this up. And Sen. Obama has said that if it becomes necessary, he thinks drafting young women is only fair. My sons are both too old for it to affect, but I do have 18 and 12 yr old grandchildren.

I am OK with the income tax we pay, even if it goes up some, but we are not in that high a bracket. I do think that taking 50% of a persons income, whatever it is, is excessive. A tax increase on small business might affect students (like my grandaughter) who need to work part time. I have a problem with the global tax not just because of the money, but the other treaties that are attached.

Yes, our university tuition is ridiculous. My grandaughter just started college, but she worked very hard to qualify for a 2 yr scholarship to any state university. She now goes to a U. of MO branch right here and still lives at home. She hopes to go to a private Christian college her last two years. That will cost $20K pe yr. Until the last few months I had enough in my annuity to easily pay for this, but now I'm afraid to look. Regardless, we will find a way when the time comes.

The private health care system is a mystery to me. I do know that a recent test my husband had was billed for $1900 but Medicare paid about $350 and the lab accepted that. Why they didn't just bill for $350 I don't know.

The reason I wanted to talk about the gun issue is in large areas of this country people have firearms and they use them in hunting and sports. Right or wrong-they will not take lightly any interferance. In this area we have a very peaceful population and very little crime. My husband-before he retired, and my son are required to carry a concealed weapon because they work with felons. But it was only me that has ever been threatened with a gun.

I was at work at the travel agency (in a different town than we live now) in late 1997, and a man that everyone at work knew shot out the front door with a shot gun. It was about 15 ft from my desk. My desk was the closest to the door in an open bay office. Thank goodness he left without killing anyone. He was mentally ill and had some imagined grievance with our parent company. That day I wished I had a defensive weapon in case he came back, because we never even got to take the rest of the day off!!! It took police a week to find him.

Sorry to ramble.

My husband and I love Europe, but we have never been to Denmark or Scandinavia. I'm sure it is a beautiful place. Nice talking to you Linne.

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[pjayer]

would add that most of the intelligence comming from our Europian allies were confirming our intelligence of WMD's in Iraq. Our intelligence was budget was drastically reduced under President Clinton.

Linne

Linne - President Bush decided to invade Iraq based on information he was getting from the CIA, which had been cut to bare bones under the Clinton administration. The UN inspector had been thrown out of Iraq by Saddam Hussein so Bush, along with our European allies, concluded that Saddam Hussein had WMD's. Anti war people like to say that Bush lied about invading Iraq because, in hind sight, there were no WMD's in Iraq. The facts are that the world community also believed there were WMD's in Iraq, not just Bush.

Bush knew he was relying on intelligence from the CIA that might not have been accurate because Clinton cut the budget to bare bones, but we went to war anyway? And, I wonder why the world community also believed there were WMD's in Iraq?


In his address to the United Nations on September 12, 2002, President George W. Bush said:

The history, the logic, and the facts lead to only one conclusion: Saddam Hussein's regime is a grave and gathering danger. To suggest otherwise is to hope against the evidence. To assume this regime's good faith is to bet the lives of millions and the peace of the world in a reckless gamble. And this is a risk we must not take.

http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/iraq/homepage.htm

[David- n Hampton, VA]

It wasn't just the CIA that was dismantled. Ask the NGA, NSA or any of the three letter or DoD service organizations --- both the high profile ones and the not so high profile ones......All of them had to cut back in man hours, equipment and worse perhaps...effective "range" of their operations because Clinton cut them to shreds. The eight years of "re-building" if one can call it that, did not allow enough time to place agents into all the various places they had to be in significant numbers to get the data that was required to avoid a very big miscalculation. Blame Bush all you care too....but he made EXACTLY the same decision any sane President would have...given the intelligence that was available form around the world.

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[pjayer]

SJ, I believe entering into this war based on flawed information was reckless, dangerous, and illogical. Since Bush knew he had bad information, I believe he had an even greater burden to verify it. Now, we're stuck there for who knows how long while most of our allies have left.

I appreciate the sacrifice everyone in the military has made and continues to make. Those men and women are the most honorable Americans I know. Hussein was evil and good riddance to him and his regime. I hope the Iraqi people have a better life and that we and the rest of the world are safer because of this war.

SJ, you're very much entitled to your opinion and I respect that. But, it is still my opinion that Bush's decision to invade Iraq based on questionable facts was irresponsible and rash. If he'd been honest and up front about his flawed information, we might not be where we are today. For me, this only provides further proof of his incompetence and poor judgement.

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