usvi-on-line
breakin vir grande villa
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Teresa_Rae
- Posts: 2053
- Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:44 pm
- Location: Downstate IL
Papabou's post made me very, very sad. I always look forward to his trips, as he is a long-time STJ visitor but still so excited about the little island. It just makes me sad that he doesn't feel safe and has cancelled his trip.
I think we need to talk about this kind of stuff here. In fact, on "the other board that need not be named" we were called out as having some serious rose-colored glasses when it comes to STJ. I don't necessarily have rose-colored glasses. I don't go anywhere by myself, especially at night. I have avoided the area by Pine Peace and the ball fields, like I was told, I don't keep belongings in plain sight in my Jeep or leave it unlocked. I don't go to beaches by myself. I've been cautious.
I just never realized that I might get mugged sitting on my pool deck at night...
I think this is a conversation we needed to have. We can't wear blinders, even in "paradise." We just have to be extra cautious, and we'll all be fine...
I think we need to talk about this kind of stuff here. In fact, on "the other board that need not be named" we were called out as having some serious rose-colored glasses when it comes to STJ. I don't necessarily have rose-colored glasses. I don't go anywhere by myself, especially at night. I have avoided the area by Pine Peace and the ball fields, like I was told, I don't keep belongings in plain sight in my Jeep or leave it unlocked. I don't go to beaches by myself. I've been cautious.
I just never realized that I might get mugged sitting on my pool deck at night...
I think this is a conversation we needed to have. We can't wear blinders, even in "paradise." We just have to be extra cautious, and we'll all be fine...
I'm just curious as to what the more secure location is that Papabou has chosen? And do you know it to truly be secure or have you just not read about problems there? I read about crimes on island and yes it is concerning, especially if police aren't helpful, but it doesn't seem all that much different than the rest of the world. That inlcudes where I live. Right now we are going through a rash of vehicle break ins in my town. Honestly my car is in the driveway all day unlocked. So I've changed my habits for now.
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Teresa_Rae
- Posts: 2053
- Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:44 pm
- Location: Downstate IL
Interesting Lulu...a couple years back I remember a conversation on the "other" forum where people got really offended when others brought up crime in the islands…the response was very much “it happens everywhere, get over it”...meaning that it was the other side wearing rose colored glasses. The thing is that crime doesn’t happen everywhere at the shocking rates that it happens in the USVI, especially not in similarly sized communities. Sure, there are exceptions and certain small cities have high crime, but the vast majority of them don’t.
Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry.
- Mark Twain
- Mark Twain
It's probably still a lot safer on STJ than it is here in Nashville. I know no one wants bad things to happen on vacation, but I've vacationed in L.A., Chicago, Washington, D.C., and London with no consequence, so I might be OK.
Actually, someone did break into my hotel room in the French countryside several years ago, but it wasn't too bad except for a priceless souvenir I purchased the day before being broken. I had all my traveler's checks and my passport with me, so nothing worth stealing in the room!
Actually, someone did break into my hotel room in the French countryside several years ago, but it wasn't too bad except for a priceless souvenir I purchased the day before being broken. I had all my traveler's checks and my passport with me, so nothing worth stealing in the room!
lulu & others
if i was only deciding for my self, no brainer. i'd be back on stj in sept. i perhaps have an unusual spouse of 42 years; she doesn't surf the internet or read the paper or watch the news on tv. i'm her source of info and she depends solely on me to direct and protect her which i will do to a fault.
to many, she's a kept woman. to me she's the mother of my children and my bride who is entitled to be "sheltered" from the storm and undue risks. i frankly feel a little guilty because i have had the nagging suspicion of undue risks for last few trips and relied on the fact that nothing happened to assure my self nothing was wrong.
my point, be sure you and each of those traveling with you understand the risks and what you can do to minimize them. sort of an "informed consent". the current likelihood of being a victim is probably remote. a risk i would personally take, just not one i'd subject the bride to.
marybeth, the safe feel (&easier access) comes at a great cost of a completely different mindless vacation with the masses. treasure island at nassau, club med at T&C & cancun, and larger hotels at similar locales. same seure feeling that i believe we could find at caneel, gallows & westin at stj. unfortunately that is not our stj. perhaps if we had started stj there we'd be content. fortunately we began on the western hillsides of upper rockridge and gifft hill. once you have had tasted the necture, you can't settle for less though we were planning staying above gibney in sept to reduce the driving time to the nshore beaches.
still,
papabou
ps, i sincerely believe that the problems on stt & stj can be fixed. i believe crime is like most skin cancer, ignore it and you die from it. while early treatment and normal precautions negate most of the risk. the cancer has be spotted on the island and without treatment, paradise is lost (for all but the reckless).
if i was only deciding for my self, no brainer. i'd be back on stj in sept. i perhaps have an unusual spouse of 42 years; she doesn't surf the internet or read the paper or watch the news on tv. i'm her source of info and she depends solely on me to direct and protect her which i will do to a fault.
to many, she's a kept woman. to me she's the mother of my children and my bride who is entitled to be "sheltered" from the storm and undue risks. i frankly feel a little guilty because i have had the nagging suspicion of undue risks for last few trips and relied on the fact that nothing happened to assure my self nothing was wrong.
my point, be sure you and each of those traveling with you understand the risks and what you can do to minimize them. sort of an "informed consent". the current likelihood of being a victim is probably remote. a risk i would personally take, just not one i'd subject the bride to.
marybeth, the safe feel (&easier access) comes at a great cost of a completely different mindless vacation with the masses. treasure island at nassau, club med at T&C & cancun, and larger hotels at similar locales. same seure feeling that i believe we could find at caneel, gallows & westin at stj. unfortunately that is not our stj. perhaps if we had started stj there we'd be content. fortunately we began on the western hillsides of upper rockridge and gifft hill. once you have had tasted the necture, you can't settle for less though we were planning staying above gibney in sept to reduce the driving time to the nshore beaches.
still,
papabou
ps, i sincerely believe that the problems on stt & stj can be fixed. i believe crime is like most skin cancer, ignore it and you die from it. while early treatment and normal precautions negate most of the risk. the cancer has be spotted on the island and without treatment, paradise is lost (for all but the reckless).
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Teresa_Rae
- Posts: 2053
- Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:44 pm
- Location: Downstate IL
I’m kind of a numbers nerd, so if you compare STJ and STT to Nashville, these are the per capita (per 100,000 people) crime rates…this is 2004 USVI data vs. 2006 Nashville data, as that is what was readily available:
Murder: STJ/STT – 18 (it was 25 in 2003!), Nashville – 14
Rape: STJ/STT – 67, Nashville – 57
Robbery: STJ/STT – 236, Nashville – 432
Burglary: STJ/STT – 1602, Nashville – 1135
So STJ/STT is worse for murder, rape, and burglary, and Nashville is worse for robbery. But Nashville has more than 10 times as many people as STJ and STT, so you’d think the numbers for the latter should look a lot better.
I guess the point is that STJ and STT have a disproportionate amount of crime for the population there. So when I go to STJ, I don’t think “hey, this is a really safe place like every other town of 4000 people”…instead I think “this is a place where I have to be weary of crime as if I was visiting a big city.”
I used to have a false sense of security when I was on STJ because I thought of it as a typical town of 4000 people...however when I looked into crime rates, I changed my mentality. Now when I'm visiting STJ I just keep my guard up like I would in a big city and hope that nothing will ever happen.
Murder: STJ/STT – 18 (it was 25 in 2003!), Nashville – 14
Rape: STJ/STT – 67, Nashville – 57
Robbery: STJ/STT – 236, Nashville – 432
Burglary: STJ/STT – 1602, Nashville – 1135
So STJ/STT is worse for murder, rape, and burglary, and Nashville is worse for robbery. But Nashville has more than 10 times as many people as STJ and STT, so you’d think the numbers for the latter should look a lot better.
I guess the point is that STJ and STT have a disproportionate amount of crime for the population there. So when I go to STJ, I don’t think “hey, this is a really safe place like every other town of 4000 people”…instead I think “this is a place where I have to be weary of crime as if I was visiting a big city.”
I used to have a false sense of security when I was on STJ because I thought of it as a typical town of 4000 people...however when I looked into crime rates, I changed my mentality. Now when I'm visiting STJ I just keep my guard up like I would in a big city and hope that nothing will ever happen.
Let us live so that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry.
- Mark Twain
- Mark Twain
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Teresa_Rae
- Posts: 2053
- Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 5:44 pm
- Location: Downstate IL
Bad stuff can happen anywhere. John and I were victims of a room invasion a couple of years ago in a teeny town in far western Massachusetts, a town that I'm pretty sure has a practically non-existant crime rate. I still visit that area (though I won't stay at that hotel!), and I'm not going to stop going to St. John because of this incident either. I do think it is imperative that measures be taken to ensure the safety of the tourists and the residents. A lot of people will write a destination off completely after hearing about something like this. I really don't have any suggestions about how to fix it, though. Private security to make the rounds of the villas maybe? I don't know...
It's like looking in your soup and finding a whole different alphabet.
Life is all about measured risks. I will continue to be hypervigilant no matter where I am (its just my nature) and I'll continue to choose STJ over a more urban island (like STT) or a resort where I have to be gated in (too numerous to name). That to me is just not a vacation.
If I can't really be a part of the island I don't want to be there.
But then again I am the girl who honeymooned at a tiny, beautiful, glorious NON-gated resort in Negril
I knew Jamaica wasn't the safest of places in the world, but I did my research and made the best choices I possibly could and have no regrets. The taxi from Montego Bay to Negril was the scariest part. Negril was bliss. Truly magical.
Honestly, I worry way more about plane troubles or a kid with an inconvenient and painful ear infection than anything else.
It is horrible what has happened to these people who took every precaution and still were victimized. I agree that the police response leaves a lot to be desired. I just refuse to lock myself away in my house and not go anywhere. If someone knows of a crimefree haven, or even an island with less crime than STJ please let me in on the secret.
If I can't really be a part of the island I don't want to be there.
But then again I am the girl who honeymooned at a tiny, beautiful, glorious NON-gated resort in Negril
I knew Jamaica wasn't the safest of places in the world, but I did my research and made the best choices I possibly could and have no regrets. The taxi from Montego Bay to Negril was the scariest part. Negril was bliss. Truly magical.Honestly, I worry way more about plane troubles or a kid with an inconvenient and painful ear infection than anything else.
It is horrible what has happened to these people who took every precaution and still were victimized. I agree that the police response leaves a lot to be desired. I just refuse to lock myself away in my house and not go anywhere. If someone knows of a crimefree haven, or even an island with less crime than STJ please let me in on the secret.
I don't think you can fairly assess the crime rate on STJ when it is lumped in with STT. If you pulled just the numbers for STJ you'd see a very different comparison.
How many murders have there been this year on St. John? Last year?
I can think of 2 since the island has been on my radar for the last 10 years or so. Neither was a tourist in the conventional sense. (No I am not saying a tourist life is more valuable, just that if you are assessing your risk as a tourist you should compare apples to apples).
The villa invasion increase is scary and definitely something to think about when making decisions about where to stay. But I just don't think you can compare crime on STJ to crime in any big city, domestic or otherwise.
How many murders have there been this year on St. John? Last year?
I can think of 2 since the island has been on my radar for the last 10 years or so. Neither was a tourist in the conventional sense. (No I am not saying a tourist life is more valuable, just that if you are assessing your risk as a tourist you should compare apples to apples).
The villa invasion increase is scary and definitely something to think about when making decisions about where to stay. But I just don't think you can compare crime on STJ to crime in any big city, domestic or otherwise.
flip,
i don't disagree with your and other's assessments of risk (slight) vs reward (the best vacations we have ever had). i'm guessing most of you are little if any older than my daughters (38 & 40) and hell i was still bullet proof at their ages. you just get more cautious and conservative (decisions potilical and otherwise) when you start drawing soc sec.
i hope this post raises enough issues and concerns that remedial action will happen (at least on stj). but without knowing that the the police and local govt has become proactive on crime, i will view stj via the boards or on trips without the bride. to continue to have good board posts, someone has to go. go and enjoy, be careful and give us all the great details here.
perhaps bermuda is the only "island" vac spot that is as secure as our homes. she's beautiful, a little stuffy, much more expensive than stj, and definitely not a beach vacation spot oct through april. she will get a return visit perhaps next summer but i would prefer to read stj is ready when i am.
papabou
i don't disagree with your and other's assessments of risk (slight) vs reward (the best vacations we have ever had). i'm guessing most of you are little if any older than my daughters (38 & 40) and hell i was still bullet proof at their ages. you just get more cautious and conservative (decisions potilical and otherwise) when you start drawing soc sec.
i hope this post raises enough issues and concerns that remedial action will happen (at least on stj). but without knowing that the the police and local govt has become proactive on crime, i will view stj via the boards or on trips without the bride. to continue to have good board posts, someone has to go. go and enjoy, be careful and give us all the great details here.
perhaps bermuda is the only "island" vac spot that is as secure as our homes. she's beautiful, a little stuffy, much more expensive than stj, and definitely not a beach vacation spot oct through april. she will get a return visit perhaps next summer but i would prefer to read stj is ready when i am.
papabou
papabou, I love Bermuda too and have been there about 10 times. It is not crime free though. Look here:
http://www.bermudapolice.bm/pages/CRIMESTATS.HTM
On our last stay, we rented a property that is run by one of the island hotels, but it is a seperate cottage on the top of a hill. The hotel guard was up there walking on our lawn every hour, and he "spoke sternly" to us for having a window open at night.
Obviously, it is a relatively safe destination, but it's not perfect--just like every place else.
http://www.bermudapolice.bm/pages/CRIMESTATS.HTM
On our last stay, we rented a property that is run by one of the island hotels, but it is a seperate cottage on the top of a hill. The hotel guard was up there walking on our lawn every hour, and he "spoke sternly" to us for having a window open at night.
Obviously, it is a relatively safe destination, but it's not perfect--just like every place else.
It's like looking in your soup and finding a whole different alphabet.