usvi-on-line
Another take on the "Buster" story
I have been keeping track of this thread with much interest. This incident will not keep me from visiting St. John, but it really makes me think. What would I do if someone did that to my family? Of course I would never provoke someone to wave a gun at me, but many times it's an innocent bystander who pays the price.
I do know what would happen if the same thing happened here at home. "Buster" would have never had the chance to apologize. If you wave a gun at anyone in a public place in this area, you can be sure you WILL be put down quickly. I can run and get out of the way, but if you threaten my kids, you have a problem!
I do know what would happen if the same thing happened here at home. "Buster" would have never had the chance to apologize. If you wave a gun at anyone in a public place in this area, you can be sure you WILL be put down quickly. I can run and get out of the way, but if you threaten my kids, you have a problem!
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California Girl
The only thing that really surprises me about this whole incident and this thread is the fact that so many people seem to be shocked by the fact that there was no response from the police. However much we all may think that's unacceptable, it's just the way it is. The police on STJ (or, it seems, anywhere else in the VI for that matter) always have this same attitude & response. At least from what I've read in the Tradewinds and here on the forum it seems so. I've read about a number of crimes that have gone un-investigated with a lax police response. Why is everyone so shocked at, yet another, incident with the same results? You either go to STJ knowing this and take your chances (and if you mind your own business, and don't piss off any of the local "characters" you probably won't have any problems) or you find somewhere else to vacation that you feel safer. How about Kingston, Jamaica? Or Watts in Los Angeles? I still feel safer on STJ! Besides, do "we" as occasional visitors really have any say in what the police do or don't do on a Caribbean island? I don't think so! You can only talk with your tourist money, and if you stop spending then maybe someone will get the hint, but don't hold your breath!
OK - I confess to not having been to STJ a whole bunch of times, but I have spent enough time in the caribbean that I think for the most part I understand "the vibe".
I have no plans to cancel my upcoming visit, and do plan to make it to Shipwreck Landing, so this story has not scared me into doing anything different than I always do (one of which is to be respectful of the residents and their ways).
That being said, I think that Buster crossed a line that, at minimum, should warrant an appearance by the folks chartered to maintain law and order (and the safety of the public - both visitors and residents).
The fact that a drunk waved a gun and shouted out threats isn't all that newsworthy. The fact that it didn't SEEM to bother the cops enough to show up and find out what happened could be. For all I know, the local constabulatory may have inquired discreetly, and may have even cracked Buster across the knuckles and told him "bad Buster" - who knows?
It's no secret that places that rely on tourist travel are/will be suffering as the economy takes a bite out of disposable incomes. The last thing the good people of STJ need (I would think) is a real or imagined reason for people to cross them off of their "to-do" lists.
How many of the people that were in the restaurant with their kids do you think will want to return? Do you think that number could be affected by the perceived lack of law enforcement response to the incident?
Do you think that the hard core, seasoned STJ travelers, the ones that realize that "Things have a way of working themselves out down there" can sustain the tourist economy by themselves?
Except for the folks that may have been terribly frightened while this was going on (and not to discount their ordeal), nothing really bad happened. But it wouldn't take a whole lot to change the perception from "this isn't taken seriously down there" to " it could and does happen everywhere, but when it happens here we do our best to ensure that those responsible are dealt with properly".
OK - I'll stop beating this dead horse now...
I have no plans to cancel my upcoming visit, and do plan to make it to Shipwreck Landing, so this story has not scared me into doing anything different than I always do (one of which is to be respectful of the residents and their ways).
That being said, I think that Buster crossed a line that, at minimum, should warrant an appearance by the folks chartered to maintain law and order (and the safety of the public - both visitors and residents).
The fact that a drunk waved a gun and shouted out threats isn't all that newsworthy. The fact that it didn't SEEM to bother the cops enough to show up and find out what happened could be. For all I know, the local constabulatory may have inquired discreetly, and may have even cracked Buster across the knuckles and told him "bad Buster" - who knows?
It's no secret that places that rely on tourist travel are/will be suffering as the economy takes a bite out of disposable incomes. The last thing the good people of STJ need (I would think) is a real or imagined reason for people to cross them off of their "to-do" lists.
How many of the people that were in the restaurant with their kids do you think will want to return? Do you think that number could be affected by the perceived lack of law enforcement response to the incident?
Do you think that the hard core, seasoned STJ travelers, the ones that realize that "Things have a way of working themselves out down there" can sustain the tourist economy by themselves?
Except for the folks that may have been terribly frightened while this was going on (and not to discount their ordeal), nothing really bad happened. But it wouldn't take a whole lot to change the perception from "this isn't taken seriously down there" to " it could and does happen everywhere, but when it happens here we do our best to ensure that those responsible are dealt with properly".
OK - I'll stop beating this dead horse now...
Come see us!
Well said Steve. All you need is an incident like Aruba, (an accident or not) and there will be a sharp fall off in the businesses in a hurry. This may please some people but that is very short sighted. Less tax money, less traffic to maintain the beeches, hotels etc. Maybe this is seems a bit extreme but there would be a lot of collateral damage and there are many examples of it.
Ok, done beating the horse sorry!!
Ok, done beating the horse sorry!!
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California Girl
I think they're doing better in tourism these days than Watts.California Girl wrote:So does anyone have any numbers on Aruba these days? I'm sure business fell off for quite a while after Natalie disappeared, but I'll bet it has all come back by now. People, in general, have very short memories.
Come see us!
I too will not be deterred from traveling to St. John. I know only too well that horrendous things can and do happen here.
I do have one question...not argumentative, just curious.
If "Buster" had been waving a knife and brandishing a gun at another local, would the VIPD have ignored or responded to the call?
I can't imagine a circumstance here in the good ol' US of A where a man, (drunk or not) who was threatening men, women , and children in a restaurant, with a weapon, would simply be ignored by even the most inept police department.
Just call me naive.....
I do have one question...not argumentative, just curious.
If "Buster" had been waving a knife and brandishing a gun at another local, would the VIPD have ignored or responded to the call?
I can't imagine a circumstance here in the good ol' US of A where a man, (drunk or not) who was threatening men, women , and children in a restaurant, with a weapon, would simply be ignored by even the most inept police department.
Just call me naive.....
It takes both the sun and the rain to make a beautiful rainbow. --Unknown
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California Girl
Believe it or not, Watts does get tourism. Have you ever heard of the Watts Towers? They're quite famous. 
http://www.arts.ufl.edu/ART/RT_ROOM/watts/tower2.html
http://www.parks.ca.gov/Default.asp?page_id=613
http://www.arts.ufl.edu/ART/RT_ROOM/watts/tower2.html
http://www.parks.ca.gov/Default.asp?page_id=613
Ok, I'm going to cross a line here as gently as I can. And I'm going to ramble of topic a little. In many ways, government wise, STJ is a third world country, in spite of being a US territory, with all the pretty villas and recent amenities added for the tourist's pleasure. The police department is not only guilty of ineptness, but worse, the fact is that local West Indians have a generous amount of benefit of the doubt when it comes to criminal/legal issues that the local statesider transplant doesn't enjoy, much less a tourist. And it goes beyond the police dept. As a resident/ transplant try getting your car safety inspection from the guy [whose name will remain unsaid] that is charge of the inspections. He's a prince amoungst men,[sic] from all I've heard. So, as I said, I'm crossing a line, but the system in the USVI's is not always fair to outsiders. Now that said, the system from the US is incredibly unfair to the local West Indian. Talk to a anybody in Coral Bay with kids and find out what a child going to public high school goes through daily to go to class. It's more then a 12 hour day just to go to school! No wonder the drop out rate is off the charts compared to virtually any stateside school system. And look around. Honestly, how many local West Indian bartenders have you had serve you a drink at a local bar? Or outside of Sweet Plaintains, the Westin, or Caneel do you see a West Indian waiter, or waitress, on an island that's population is predominately black? These, and many other injustices, work to create a bond in the West Indian that often is unfair to the outsiders. There is a lot of unspoken predjudice in Love City, and it goes deep, and it goes both ways. It sucks, but it is what it is. Just my 2 cents. Keep the change.
When you find yourself in a hole.... quit digging.
JT-
We were on STJ mid-June. My husband and I went one morning to a bakery in the Lumberyard Complex. I waited in the car and when my husband came back a blonde young man followed him and asked for a ride out of the parking lot.
The fellow was heavily tattooed and athletic looking. He might have come out of Cruz Bay Watersports. He said some men near the entrance were harassing him and he was afraid of them. He wanted to know if there was another exit, of course we didn't know, but it didn't look like it.
We let him get in the back seat and he locked the door back there and asked us to roll up the windows until we got clear of the parking lot. He said he lived over near Jacobs Ladder and the same group harasses him all the time but usually leaves him alone if he is with someone.
We dropped him off a couple of blocks away and he thanked us profusely, said we got him out of a "tight spot". Now our rider may have been a real creep and the locals may have had good reason to threaten him, but it just indicated to me that some race relations there may not be all that rosy.
It was also ironic that two old decrepit seniors provided protection to the surfer dude and not the local police.
We were on STJ mid-June. My husband and I went one morning to a bakery in the Lumberyard Complex. I waited in the car and when my husband came back a blonde young man followed him and asked for a ride out of the parking lot.
The fellow was heavily tattooed and athletic looking. He might have come out of Cruz Bay Watersports. He said some men near the entrance were harassing him and he was afraid of them. He wanted to know if there was another exit, of course we didn't know, but it didn't look like it.
We let him get in the back seat and he locked the door back there and asked us to roll up the windows until we got clear of the parking lot. He said he lived over near Jacobs Ladder and the same group harasses him all the time but usually leaves him alone if he is with someone.
We dropped him off a couple of blocks away and he thanked us profusely, said we got him out of a "tight spot". Now our rider may have been a real creep and the locals may have had good reason to threaten him, but it just indicated to me that some race relations there may not be all that rosy.
It was also ironic that two old decrepit seniors provided protection to the surfer dude and not the local police.
This is just a shame in general.
To me, the bottom line, is nobody, nowhere, should be able to pull out a machete and then a gun and threaten anybody. No matter what city your in, or island, or country, something isn't right about it.
For "Buster" to be back on the street with just an apology is wrong.
The terror for some of the people at that restaurant must have been something they will always remember, and that's where the shame comes in.
There's no excuse for that......ever.
To me, the bottom line, is nobody, nowhere, should be able to pull out a machete and then a gun and threaten anybody. No matter what city your in, or island, or country, something isn't right about it.
For "Buster" to be back on the street with just an apology is wrong.
The terror for some of the people at that restaurant must have been something they will always remember, and that's where the shame comes in.
There's no excuse for that......ever.
"Paradise...it's a state of mine"
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California Girl
I think there is a blending of two stories here - the machete was over on the east end and was being used to beat a car. Someone mentioned it in their trip report ... all I remember was the kid was singing "every little ting gonna be alright" or something like that.
Regardless of that, I am probably going to step on some toes & I've really been trying to keep my mouth shut, but here goes.
I am in complete agreement with JT on the subtleties of island life. An assumed sense of fairness and right and wrong often (in my ever so humble opinion) is often one sided. Tourists often expect (or even demand) something that they are unwilling to reciprocate. This is why when I step foot on that island, or any travel destination for that matter, I behave as if I am a guest. I behave as I would if my mama were watching and listening. Well, except for the excess rum punches. I don't think many people do. I am not saying those of us here don't, I would venture to guess most of the posters on this board do this. It goes beyond a simple "good morning" and "good afternoon" -- its understanding the intention behind the nicety and truly meaning it.
The bottom line is no matter what the scenerio we rarely if ever can know the WHOLE story. Embellishment is human nature. I guarantee you if I saw a gun brandished anywhere whether it be South Central or Coral Bay I would soil myself on the spot. If my kids were with me I would do everything in my power to protect them. That would be my priority. I would not wait for the police to come solve the problem and I would NOT continue eating my cheesecake. For me, the story at that point takes on a air of unbelievability for me. I am not saying it DID NOT HAPPEN, I am just saying the retelling of it seemed to take some license.
After many trips to St. John and much interaction with locals, transplants and tourists, I find it hard to believe that the vast majority of the "incidents" that do occur are completely 100% unprovoked. I just don't buy it. It is terribly unfortunate that others (kids included) witnessed what they did. It is even more unfortunate that the police did little or nothing about it. I spent my former life as a social worker, so blaming the victim is not my intention here. My only point is that if you keep your wits about you, you maintain your politeness and you avoid people who look like trouble (they are often not hard to determine) it is far more likely than not that you will have an amazing vacation fear and "Buster" free.
Just as I am hypervigilant when walking out of my Old Town Alexandria office building after dark (with 2 million dollar townhouses on one side and Section 8 housing on the other) I am hypervigilant with myself and my family on St. John.
Regardless of that, I am probably going to step on some toes & I've really been trying to keep my mouth shut, but here goes.
I am in complete agreement with JT on the subtleties of island life. An assumed sense of fairness and right and wrong often (in my ever so humble opinion) is often one sided. Tourists often expect (or even demand) something that they are unwilling to reciprocate. This is why when I step foot on that island, or any travel destination for that matter, I behave as if I am a guest. I behave as I would if my mama were watching and listening. Well, except for the excess rum punches. I don't think many people do. I am not saying those of us here don't, I would venture to guess most of the posters on this board do this. It goes beyond a simple "good morning" and "good afternoon" -- its understanding the intention behind the nicety and truly meaning it.
The bottom line is no matter what the scenerio we rarely if ever can know the WHOLE story. Embellishment is human nature. I guarantee you if I saw a gun brandished anywhere whether it be South Central or Coral Bay I would soil myself on the spot. If my kids were with me I would do everything in my power to protect them. That would be my priority. I would not wait for the police to come solve the problem and I would NOT continue eating my cheesecake. For me, the story at that point takes on a air of unbelievability for me. I am not saying it DID NOT HAPPEN, I am just saying the retelling of it seemed to take some license.
After many trips to St. John and much interaction with locals, transplants and tourists, I find it hard to believe that the vast majority of the "incidents" that do occur are completely 100% unprovoked. I just don't buy it. It is terribly unfortunate that others (kids included) witnessed what they did. It is even more unfortunate that the police did little or nothing about it. I spent my former life as a social worker, so blaming the victim is not my intention here. My only point is that if you keep your wits about you, you maintain your politeness and you avoid people who look like trouble (they are often not hard to determine) it is far more likely than not that you will have an amazing vacation fear and "Buster" free.
Just as I am hypervigilant when walking out of my Old Town Alexandria office building after dark (with 2 million dollar townhouses on one side and Section 8 housing on the other) I am hypervigilant with myself and my family on St. John.
