Amazingly Brazen

[Bluestreak12]

This thread has been a real eye opener for me.

I have never rented a villa before either in St. John or anywhere for that matter. I have booked my villa 14 months in advance for our 25th anniversary this July. When booking it, I only did it for the two of us. I recently kicked around the notion of having friends or in-laws come with us for a portion of the time. Shame on me, but I didn't even take into account the cost of villa and to the owner for bringing an additional two people. No one else is planning on coming at this point, but I may have easily asked them to come down without notifying the management company.

I think educating the client is very important as I wouldn't think of defrauding the owner. Ignorance is certainly no excuse though and I would accept responsibility when pointed out to me. Ultimately, it is up to both of the parties to read the contract thoroughly before and following through with the agreement.

Best of luck to all the owners here!

[Teresa_Rae]

This thread has been a real eye opener for me.

I have never rented a villa before either in St. John or anywhere for that matter. I have booked my villa 14 months in advance for our 25th anniversary this July. When booking it, I only did it for the two of us. I recently kicked around the notion of having friends or in-laws come with us for a portion of the time. Shame on me, but I didn't even take into account the cost of villa and to the owner for bringing an additional two people. No one else is planning on coming at this point, but I may have easily asked them to come down without notifying the management company.

The reasons you pay more for more people are the following:
- electricity use (a/c being the biggest factor)
- water use
- cleaning fee for extra bedrooms

In my experience villa owners are happy to accommodate different sized groups within the same stay. We have paid as many as 3 different rates over the course of a 10 night stay, based on the number of people at the villa on different days.

[Bluestreak12]

I can see how the expenses would really start to add up, especially on an island compared to here in the states. I think the owner has every right to set different rates based upon how many people are staying. I think it is remarkable to even have different rates during your stay depending upon how many are there each night. Kudos to you for going out of your way in doing that!

[psufan]

I wonder how many villa owners or management companies are getting emails from forumites or lurkers that have read this thread? Our plans have changed several times since we first booked our villa for June but they have just recently firmed up. I had planned to let the managment company know and had actually given them advance notice that there might be changes. This thread prompted me to send them notice of our final plans while it was on my mind. I think we will end up on the 3 different rates plan like Theresa mentioned.

[Pia]

I wonder if anyone is looking in to wind mills on the tops of some of those hills.

I believe the requirements are 1 acre per "windmill"

Pia

[Exit Zero]

I wonder how many people would enjoy seeing the windmills in their view from the rental villa? - another case for NIMBY.

[Xislandgirl]

I am sure some folks would complain about them but I love to see them and would welcome them on STJ. Of course, I no longer live there so my opinion matters little but if it could provide much needed financial relief for locals, then I woud welcome the views of them.

[needmesomesun]

I would love to see some windmills on the island. I think they are pretty cool and I prefer the look to solar panels. I wonder how many homes a larger sized windmill would provide power for, and if a few homes (or neighborhood) could go in on one together.

[chicagoans]

re: having more people stay in a villa than what you pay for: I agree it's incredibly brazen! (And wrong.) I'm suprised more villa owners / managers don't just lock the extra bedrooms since paying for fewer guests is the same as paying for fewer bedrooms.

In addition to crazy high WAPA fees, people have more electronic stuff that even a few years ago. I'm sure at night people are charging their phones, tablets, laptops, iPods, camera batteries... or at least one or two from that list per guest.

re: wind mills: they don't have to be ugly. I'd love for some clever engineers to get together with some artists and create wind mills (or turbines) that are aesthetically pleasing. I believe it can be done (and should be, the way our energy consumption is going.) My son's middle school has a wind turbine that puts energy back on the grid and the school gets credit. There are monitors in the science class rooms to show the status of the energy being created. It's pretty cool, and IMO it's much more attractive than the spooky windmills I see in farm areas. This is their turbine, or as some call it "the egg beater." It might not be your idea of art... but I can see the possibilities for creative rendering of wind mills.

[seagrape]

Okay, some more information. After our friends talked with the property manager, it turns out that these visitors met the manager as a meet and greet as ONE COUPLE. They must have told their friends to arrive in their own jeep some time later. So, the act was definitely premeditated! Of course.

Our friend arrived at the villa after her husband came upon the extra "guests". She told them to leave and that she would write them a refund check on the spot. We asked her why she would return their money. She said "karma". Anyway, they pleaded for a while, and she asked them to forfeit their airline information until they had settled their bill. So, it all turned out okay in the end. The thieves were caught. The owners received their compensation. End of story. This one, anyway.

It turns out that there was ANOTHER fraudulent couple doing the SAME THING at the SAME TIME at their other villa. What are the chances? Same thing...one couple meet and greet...another couple arriving at a later time. Don't they know how small this island is and that people actually know each other and talk to one another? Bedroom locked or not, they made their way in.

How rampant is this? When I posted this, I had no idea that it would receive so many views and responses. Maybe it's something that people haven't really talked about at length before.

Anyway, to all of you villa owners, be vigilant. To all of your wonderful visitors that we love, be honest!

[54b]

How rampant is this? When I posted this, I had no idea that it would receive so many views and responses. Maybe it's something that people haven't really talked about at length before.

Would not be surprised to find out that it happens quite often and while it's easy to judge and say that we would never sink so low as to double or triple up on a villa rental, we've likely all been guilty of this type of fraudulent practice all be it to a much lesser degree...ever used someone's WIFI without paying for it? Ever watched a movie you didn't pay to see? Downloaded a song you didn't pay for? Used a software application you didn't pay for? Ever taken two when the sign clearly said, "only one per customer?"

After reading the original post, I was like, "the nerve of some people." And then I remembered that I myself crashed on the hotel room floors of many of friend in college while in places like New Orleans for Mardi Gras or in Florida for Spring Break. Was that quite as egregious as what these people were doing in that villa, no, but I'm still guilty.

My theory on it...

I think in this ever evolving experiment we call capitalism, our society has increasingly subscribed to the notion that "only suckers pay rack rate." The theory being that corporations have gouged consumers for years and finding a way to pay less for something isn't "cheating or fraud," no, it's "evening the playing field."

And that mentality has permeated in just about every financial transaction we make from buying airline tickets to paying taxes. We always need to find a way to do it less expensively than the other guy. And there are lots of legal and perfectly acceptable ways to do it....travel sites, Groupon, timeshare, etc.

Unfortunately, I think the mentality also grays the lines of what people believe are acceptable breaches of the rules and makes it easier or least more understandable as to why the aforementioned couples could be so "amazingly brazen" as to cross that line, engaging in an extremely illegal and egregious act.

I wish your friends had kicked them out or made them pay a penalty in addition to paying what they were supposed to pay. Heck, they could even give them the "convenience store hot check" treatment and send their names to a VRBO Black List (which I wouldn't be surprised if that already existed either for this kind of transgression and others).

Then again, who amongst us wouldn't be on somebody's black list...."Come on DirecTV, I said I was sorry, how was I supposed to know 7 dorm rooms shouldn't share the same dish?"

Interesting thread, very appropriate subject line...thanks for posting.

[Xislandgirl]

54b, I agree with almost every word but I think the problem lies with many people just not caring about who their actions affect. The renters thought nothing of their acts but the owner, a single homeowner not a huge company, could have lists thousands of dollars.

I know we all want a deal. We all want to say that we got X for 20% less than everyone else but we have to remember that in some cases, your deal has a direct effect on someone's livelihood.

I would have kicked them out too!

[Agent99]

Great post 54B. I'm sure I'm guilty too but don't rain on my parade just now because I'm feeling just a little bit superior that I've never cheated on St. John. In fact we paid the higher per person rate a couple of times at Argonauta for our entire visit but some of our family only stayed with us part of the time. Doesn't matter - Argonauta is worth every penny and we did use the A/C every day after late afternoon cocktails when the sun makes every thing look all silvery and serene and it's quiet and the music is just right but I digress. After learning just how high the energy costs are we will be more conscientious and considerate- and I will never again grumble to myself about the $50 per extra person per day charge at Gallows. That seems quite reasonable now.

About those windmills. Maybe some enterprising and deep pocketed local with a few hilltop acres will put up a few and sell the extra energy back to the utility company which will reduce the costs for the whole island. The controversy would entertain us for years. But wouldn't clean, cheap energy encourage development?

[Agent99]

Ok, I cheated at miniature golf and Clue- victimless crimes.

[Xislandgirl]

Those windmills on the miniature golf course are tough!