Good luck with your new president and the inauguration

[bayer40601]

hand outs won over personal responsibility. I'm not tone deaf, I hear it loud and clear.

Handouts=help for people.

Bailouts=help for corporations and their redecorated bathrooms.

Go figure.

[soxfan22]

Joshie - with all due respect I will have to disagree with you.

George Bush was really not a conservative. Sure, he has been a hawk on the War on Terror. But here are just a few items that more than aggrevated conservatives:

1. Medicare Part D - This is the biggest expansion of entitlement programs we have seen in decades. And from being in the industry, I can tell you that it has not been the overwhelming success that many like to believe.

Doctors now have less choice in what they prescribe patients, due to the fact that third party insurance companies actually administer the program (Aetna, Humana, Anthem Wellpoint, etc). These companies started out offering everything, but now that we are a few years into the program, and as usual with a government program the funding just insn't there to support, these private Part D plans are really restricitng their formularies (preferred drug lists).

2. Bush's plan for illegal immigration was in fact, amnesty (not a conservative principle whatsoever). Leading the way for this was was none other than...John McCain and Lindsay Graham.

3. The Dubai Ports Deal. I don't think I could name 10 people, right or left, who supported this. I will say that I thought it curious that so many of Bush's political rivals who wanted him to "reach out to the world" were against this deal.

Those are three that don't exactly appear in the "conservative playbook", and there are more.

Conservative policies of Bush:

1. Anything and everything he did in the War on Terror. NSA wiretapping (which wasn't even "wiretapping" as it is defined)...Gitmo...The Patriot Act (which saved the Brooklyn Bridge)...Enganced Interrogations (which according to George Tenet is the method by which we learned much of what we learned about Al Qaeda)...etc

2. The Infant Born Alive Protection Act

3. Tax cuts that did stimulate the economy, before the housing debacle that was overlooked by the likes of Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, and Maxine Waters.

When Republicans run on conservative principles, they win. John McCain did not do so. It is in my mind the reason Sarah Palin did draw crowds that actually did rival those of Barack Obama. People want somebody with conviction, and no matter what the left says, this country is NOT comfortable with a TRILLION DOLLARS in bailout money and increases in entitlement programs. Nor are they comfortable with a swelling federal government.

I truly believe BO is a one termer. The fancy speeches will become a thing of the last, and then Americans will want reults.

And he's off to an interesting start. Telling republicans in a meeting about his new bailout that "I won. I'll trump you on that". That sounds eerily familiar to what youo guys used to complain about with Bush.

I actually have no problem with it, because elections have consequences. It does seem a bit childish, however, and not very presidential. Say what you will about Bush, but he NEVER entered into the weeds with the media, like BO did yesterday.

"It is time to set aside childish things"

[soxfan22]

Flip, I am not interested in falling in line. Like you, I believe what I believe. I do not need Gina, Dave, or SJ to rubber stamp my metaphors, and I suspect they would not, which is fine.

And absolutely, I would say these things (and have) to my friends of the liberal persuasion (which is most of them - I was born, raised, and live in CT).

My mistake was that it is very difficult (impossible) to read someone's physical cues on the Internet. If you really knew me, you would not keep harping on this issue. I am not a racist, a bigot, a douchebag, an anti-semite, etc. I used a metaphor and an outdated term that offended you (that no matter what you say, some people still actually LIKE being called, apparently).

When you are incapable of accepting someone's apology and moving on to further the debate, who is the one who is spewing hate? Who is the one who is unforgiving? There is a part of you (IMO) that thinks that you control this board, and in essence control the discourse. That is not the case, my friend.

And if you are so worried about the Holocaust, you are the one supporting a man who wishes to engage a man who sickly believes that the Holocaust never happened. Oh, and wishes to wipe the remainder of Jews off the face of the Earth. That, is insulting.

I used a metaphor.

[flip-flop]

I don't at all think I own this forum. There are people here FAR better suited to that title and far more deserving.

I am hounding you because I think you were so far off base that someone must call you out. I am the best friend on the playground who stands up the bully who calls her friend 4 eyes.

Over and out ... I have to go stimulate the economy now and find myself a new ride. Enjoy your Saturday!

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[Pete (Mr. Marcia)]

SJfromNJ wrote: I guess its OK then to go put the manicure/pedicure on the VISA and go to the clinic for the government sponsored Abortion.

Is it that you don't like women? You certainly are fast with the stereotypes.

You also seem to suggest that women make the decision to have an abortion as casually as the decision to get their nails done.

Or, was your point that women will pay to get their nails done with their own money, but the "government" pays for their abortions? If that is the case, that's a weak argument coming from someone as intelligent as you.

[sailorgirl]

"an outdated term that offended you (that no matter what you say, some people still actually LIKE being called, apparently)."

Here's an invitation for Sox, I'll even attend to watch, heck I'll sell tickets, its captitalism after all. Travel into New Haven,I'll meet you on the Green on Chapel Street. Stand in the middle and as any light skinned person of color who walks by, ask them, "you wouldn't happen to be a "Mulato?" We can do a scientific study on how many people "actually like being called [that] apparently."

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[Pete (Mr. Marcia)]

SJfromNJ wrote: "I think we can all agree that our society is in a state of moral decay."

I don't think we can because it all depends on one's definition of "morality." Therein lies the rub.

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[soxfan22]

"an outdated term that offended you (that no matter what you say, some people still actually LIKE being called, apparently)."

Here's an invitation for Sox, I'll even attend to watch, heck I'll sell tickets, its captitalism after all. Travel into New Haven,I'll meet you on the Green on Chapel Street. Stand in the middle and as any light skinned person of color who walks by, ask them, "you wouldn't happen to be a "Mulato?" We can do a scientific study on how many people "actually like being called [that] apparently."

Sailorgirl, I really don't want to get into an arguement with you...

If that term (see I said I wouldn't say it again) is one that is derogatory on the level of the most disgusting "N" word (as Flip makes it seem), then I am guilty of ignorance. I did not realize that. But, when I looked into it, I did find that some find it to be insulting, and some do not.

It is true that tree months ago Flip "educated" me on the feelings of Bi-Racial folks, and their disdain for the word. I shouldn't have mentioned it again after that. I did so last week because somebody started a thread about Obama being Bi-Racial, and I threw that term out there tongue in cheek. It was a stupid thing to do on my part, full well knowing the sensitivity.

She also called me out for using the term "girls". Has that term never been used on this forum before? How about the term "boys"? Never?

I was also called out for using the term "Messiah" in relation to Obama. I mean, where are we going in this country? If everything we say has to be so sanitized that we are all walking around like PC/ACLU robots, I'm all set. There have been many things said here that have deeply offended me as well, but I do not spend 6 or 8 posts calling those people out. Things that were said about Palin...things about Bush...Conservatism in general...Where do we draw the line of political correctness? Like I said before, who's to judge the degree to which someone is "allowed" to be offended?

I AM SORRY I USED THE TERM. POOR TASTE ON MY PART.

BTW sailorgirl, you're from the Nutmeg State as well? Seem to be many of us on here.

[loria]

[quote="SJfromNJ"]
How about tightening our boarders /quote]

Well, SJ, I for one, do not want a crew of unruly drunks running around my house--regardless of what they pay!

as for your diatribe on abortion--do you really think that someone WANTS to be in that position??? you seem to think that this is a preferred method of birth control for the unwashed masses. Give it a rest. for now abortion is legal and safe.

[XOXO]

cypressgirl:
Yes, I agree, the demographics of the U.S. are changing........hand outs won over personal responsibility. I'm not tone deaf, I hear it loud and clear.

Why the pictures of Oprah? That's what I don't get.

I don't get it either. Oprah?

flipflop:
Again, can someone please tell me what is it that makes those lives not worth fighting or protesting over. Is it that they are not US citizens or that they are not still in the uterus?

I am staying out of the abortion debate . . . but I have an opinion about why we can’t fight for the lives lost in Iraq. When we are being targeted by a group of people, who hate us because of their own moral compass, we really don’t have any other options. Do I wish it were different? sure.

Bayer:
Handouts=help for people.

Define these people. I am ALL for helping people. I am adamantly against helping people who choose to sit on their couch with their hands out. If someone is physically able to help themselves, but but is content to take the easy road, then why am I expected to help them?? I admit that I do not want to help ALL of the people and wish we would reform the welfare system so that we were helping the right people only. If there were reform I would be shouting the loudest about our responsibility to help our fellow man. And if working were optional . . . well, send my checks to St. John on the beach.

SOXFAN:

Doctors now have less choice in what they prescribe patients, due to the fact that third party insurance companies actually administer the program

I have a huge question about this. My doctor is now computerized. I take armour thyroid and zyrtek d. Armour is an old medicine that isn’t regularly prescribed anymore and synthroid is now the currently prescribed medicine for people are hypothyroid. Armour is inexpensive because it is no longer under patent. I had done a lot of research and really felt/feel that armour was the best choice for me. I had to change doctors because my doctor wasn’t willing to prescribe it. Zyrtek D is now sold over the counter. Ok there is the background, so I was looking at my Doctors computer and there were red sad faces next to my prescriptions. I asked my Doctor about it and she said it was because they aren’t “insurance friendly” as coded by the insurance companies. I dropped it. I adore my Doctor and didn't want to ask but . . . I have to wonder . . . it is because drug companies aren’t making as much money on armour and zyrtek?? Is this a friendly reminder from the drug companies that they aren't making as much money????

That is my hunch . . . I am all over the place politically on drugs, insurance, and health care. All I can say with certainty is that I do not like the way it is . I believe there are decisions made daily that are influenced by the big drug companies and insurance companies that aren't necessarily in the patents best interest. I think it is very corrupt.

This was something I felt McCain and Palin were going to fight to reform. If I wasn’t going to get my first choice, I have to admit, that I would have preferred Clinton to Obama. Clinton’s health plan was more inclusive and Obama’s is more exclusive because it is income based. I think we would invoke a bigger change on the big drug companies with Clilnton’s health care plan. And . . . I would bet the drug companies were behind Clinton’s failed health care plan during the Clinton years.

Soxfan:

I am not a racist, a bigot, a douchebag, an anti-semite, etc. I used a metaphor and an outdated term that offended you (that no matter what you say, some people still actually LIKE being called, apparently).

I had to laugh a little at this . . . it is so ridiculous that you have been called any of these names . I don’t know if anyone else will agree but, it is clear to me that you are none of these things. There in lies the humor.

SJ: bald is the new black!! Embrace it; shave the rest and you are going to have to fight the hot girls off of you! Your whole post about the abortion and the visa . . . right on . . . except for the bald part! PS: I am female and completely understood the point of SJ’s post.

Flip-Flop: while I don’t agree with most of your views; I respect how passionate you are. I do think it is good for all of us to respectfully debate our views. I am not against you. Soxfan doesn’t need me to defend himself.

[XOXO]

do you really think that someone WANTS to be in that position??? you seem to think that this is a preferred method of birth control for the unwashed masses. Give it a rest. for now abortion is legal and safe.

Again, I am staying out of the legality of abortion debate, but I have to say that abortion shouldn't be a scapegoat to responsibility.

If I am speeding and a cop catches me, can I get out of paying my ticket because I don't want to be in that position??? No, it is a chance I took and I have to be responsible for the ticket. When I put my foot on the pedal I make a decision . . . and I am the one who is responsible if I get caught.

Believe it, or not, I am pro-choice . . . but I don't agree with abortion for someone who doesn't want to be responsible. Every woman in a physical relationship need to . . . think first about the consequences . . . make decision based on the possible outcomes . . . be responsible. I really don't care what the man has to think about . . . I am the one who had to think about myself.

I really sat with my mouth open the first time I heard Obama say that he doesn't want his daughter's punished with a child. Punished?? I don't get that.

[loria]

do you really think that someone WANTS to be in that position??? you seem to think that this is a preferred method of birth control for the unwashed masses. Give it a rest. for now abortion is legal and safe.

Again, I am staying out of the legality of abortion debate, but I have to say that abortion shouldn't be a scapegoat to responsibility.

If I am speeding and a cop catches me, can I get out of paying my ticket because I don't want to be in that position??? No, it is a chance I took and I have to be responsible for the ticket. When I put my foot on the pedal I make a decision . . . and I am the one who is responsible if I get caught.

Believe it, or not, I am pro-choice . . . but I don't agree with abortion for someone who doesn't want to be responsible. Every woman in a physical relationship need to . . . think first about the consequences . . . make decision based on the possible outcomes . . . be responsible. I really don't care what the man has to think about . . . I am the one who had to think about myself.

I really sat with my mouth open the first time I heard Obama say that he doesn't want his daughter's punished with a child. Punished?? I don't get that.

birth control fails, people get raped, incest is not uncommon, teenagers think they cannot be touched (and the rampant lack of sex ed and the abstinence vow thing really makes this a problem). outside of sex slaves/indentured prostitution, if you can find me someone who actually relies on abortion as a method of birth control i will eat my keyboard. (oh and this also flies in the face of those here that argue that poor women get pregnant so they can have more kids and get more government handouts--)
Obama made a poor choice of words, however, i too would not want my daughter to NOT have the option of making a choice to terminate a pregnancy were she to get pregnant before she had finished school, etc--it changes your path. I would rather my daughter get into parenthood when she has made the choice to become a parent, not because some government legislated that she must.