Is Iran a Surprising Place?

[Anthony]

Everyone - as I have said to almost every person that has corresponded to me over the years - I can't read every thread, all the time. The forum is just a part of my work day, albeit a special and important one. I made the off topic forum because people here were obviously becoming friends, and I wanted to give them the opportunity to discuss other things (not to get each other aggravated!).

That being said - there seems to be a tendency to try to stir things up over here. I am not pointing fingers or blaming anyone, and I appreciate both sides of the spectrum and the passion of each. But it does seem that some topics here are posted just to get a reaction. That being said - you can just move on and not read (as I have also advised countless times). I can't possibly control 2,200 hundred adults conversation - nor do I want to. I always ask you to police yourselves first and foremost. I do appreciate every one of you that comes here and shares information - that was why I got into this web thing in the first place, 14 years ago!

Finally - I do want to make one point. No one got Jorge "kicked off" this forum. Jorge did by harassing another member. If you don't believe that, read the rules - they haven't changed much since 1996 or so - specifically:

"Do not harass another posting individual of these forums, whether via email or posts."

http://www.caribbean-on-line.com/travel ... .php?t=170

And - I do believe that this is the only time I have ever banned a user. Ever.

I would highly prefer you contact me directly if you have any issues with policy, and not speculate or speak for me or interpret my actions here on the forum. I have a job to do here - keep the most people the most happy most of the time. I am not complaining, even though I have been called a coward, a censor, etc. My skin (or blubber perhaps) is pretty thick

I will leave you with something else (before I slip off this soap box and sprain my ankle) I have said to countless forum members over the years: it's just a travel forum.

If you are tired of it, if it is causing you gried, it is fine to move on.

It is late here in Italy, so don't take it the wrong way if I don't respond to any comments to this until tomorrow.

Thanks -

[DaveS007]

What is really interesting about this particular thread is that the original post was perfect for an "off topic" travel forum. It is certainly off topic, current, and basically non political. The second post is the one that really started it going down hill and only because of who the original poster is!! You can certainly see that the ones who are complaining and policing this web site are the ones whom indeed caused the problem, at least in this case. If Sox original point was left to stand on its own, we (those who want to) could have had a great discussion about the situation in Iran.
Period. Why don't you soapbox know it all's stay.... ah forget it.

[Bandit]

Dave,

I agree with your post and those of Sox, Hawksnest, and Ruth. Certain posters have practically driven me away from the Forum by posting so frequently and so often that it becomes difficult to follow a thread, and dominating a conversation to the point that no one else can get a comment in. And the "oh that's cute" type post is just a total waste of time. But we see posts over and over again that say absolutely nothing.

I politely PM'ed one Poster to please not post in EVERY thread on the Forum. That just made it worse. I understand there are people in this world that don't have a life or have lots of extra time on their hands but it certainly appears that some live on this Forum and really don't have a life. But the real problem is that here are tons of lurkers that might post or post more if they were given a chance without some blabbermouth dominating each and every thread.

And now it seems they have learned the dog mentality and are ganging up on Posters that don't fit into their clique, and just trying to run Anthony's site for him, but with their rules.

And I'm surprised that one Poster has been allowed to promote their business in their signature line.

Bring it!

Bandit

[soxfan22]

Actually, this was Anthony's original request.
- Ruth

==============================
Anthony
Site Admin
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Posts: 1284
Location: Florence, Italy
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2009 1:19 pm Post subject: It's the "Off Topic" forum, not the flaming troll

------------------------------------------------

Everyone, can we just chill with some of these posts? How about off topic is food, wine, beer, books, art, music, sex, travels to other places, and things VI lovers share in common, etc - but not politics? Hang out on the political blogs to get into this stuff - there are so many of them (I will provide a list if needed). I really can't take seeing this forum turning into this. I am trying to accommodate users here by making this available, but not at the expense of it being a giant headache and me needing to monitor it all the time.
Thanks -
[/b]

Ruth - with all due respect (and I have a ton for you by virtue of that little business you seem to run flawlessly down there...My favorite store in the world quite possibly)...In each topic you mentioned that would be "allowable" on the OTF, there is a segment of it that could be termed "controversial"...For instance:

Sex - is a discussion on gay sex allowable? I have no problem either way, but some might be offended.

Books - Say I wanted to start a discussion on Mein Kampf, a historic book written by Hitler that basically outlined his whacked out ideology and world plan long before he began implementing? I would imagine some would be offended.

Should there be a "new rule" (to borrow a phrase from Bill Maher - a man who I'm sure has "hero status" among many here) saying that the only books that can be discussed are those with Fabio on the cover?

I mean, the more I write here the more I realize we are talking about censorship...something the left has always screamed about.

Unfortunately, what's good for the goose is rarely good for the gander on the left. Dissenting opinions are dismissed as "un-cultured", "ignorant", "hateful", etc.

I will say that there are a lot of lurkers who enjoy reading about these things.

It's a sad day when the politically correct police have set up shop on the VIOL forum.

And you know what? It offends me that I may be standing in line at the Deli Grotto with a man who isn't wearing underwear. Women? Fine. But the fact that there may be men freeballin' it right next to me offends me.

[cypressgirl]

The basis for this problem is that the forum is 95% liberal and 5% conservative, (at least those willing to post), which is not representative of the entire country, despite the main stream medias best attempts. There is power in numbers, and very little tolerance.

Now I know what those wounds are all over my a$$.......dog bites.

[flip-flop]

If you are tired of it, if it is causing you grief, it is fine to move on.
Thanks -

I think that about sums it up. If you don't like what's posted here, or it troubles you that you feel you are in the minority, or that there might be a clique, or that some people seem to LIKE each other and have a little fun here, or that there are newbies asking silly questions, or regulars who tirelessly answer the same questions over and over, or that there are locals who are extraordinarily helpful to those of us not lucky enough to live on STJ, you are perfectly free to move along to another part of the internet.

I will respect Anthony's desire that we play nice and not engage in overly hostile debates anymore.

I don't get folks who barely post a thing and when they do it is either nonsense or just nasty.

I have had some intense discussions here, but no personal angst toward anyone. Those who I feel add nothing to the convo I just ignore. It is easier than I thought it would be. Try it, I find it VERY liberating.

[linne]

I have promised myself that I never again would participate in any political discussion in this forum. I have seen how such a discussion can develop in a way, I don’t like.

Now I break my promise.

I like to discuss here, and I like to know what the Americans mean about different things including politic. But I have stopped to ask about anything concerning politic. I don’t like the tone some people here use. It’s too hateful. And I’m sure that some answers have the opposite reaction. People think it’s too much and don’t hear the message!

So for a long time I haven’t opened topics with certain names on, because I knew what the message would be, and it is just so boring to read about the same fanaticism again, again and again. And it has absolutely nothing to do with, whether I agree or disagree! I think people would be ready to discuss politic here, if the discussions were kept in a polite manner.

I opened this topic, because Iran was a new subject, and I got curious. But how disappointing it is to follow it. As I understand Anthony he wants to “keep the most people the most happy most of the time”.
And many people are happy for “the cute posts”, they are enjoying the regularly posters, and they like to have a reaction to their topics, so that they know that some have read, what they have written. I cannot see anything wrong with that. There are a lot of things discussed here, which people enjoy. Some subjects are perhaps unimportant for some, but no one are forced to read everything.

I so much enjoy being a member of this forum, and I have to tell that I certainly have a life beside the forum. I know that my opinion doesn’t mean so much - I’m a sort of outsider here - but I really hope that people still will be nice to each other. It’s so depressing to see the mudthrowing, which is going on.

Linne

[soxfan22]

If you are tired of it, if it is causing you grief, it is fine to move on.
Thanks -

I think that about sums it up. If you don't like what's posted here, or it troubles you that you feel you are in the minority, or that there might be a clique, or that some people seem to LIKE each other and have a little fun here, or that there are newbies asking silly questions, or regulars who tirelessly answer the same questions over and over, or that there are locals who are extraordinarily helpful to those of us not lucky enough to live on STJ, you are perfectly free to move along to another part of the internet.

I don't get folks who barely post a thing and when they do it is either nonsense or just nasty.

It's funny...It was some of your "friends" around here who were complaining of newbees asking questions over and over again. You will never find me complaining about that - Much better to answer a question with a polite response than the snarky..."Use the search function, that's what it's there for".

And yes, over the past year or so there has been a pretty exclusive 6 or 8 that seem to have declared themselves the unofficial "board of directors" of the VIOL forum. Speaking of Board of Directors, did you hear what the new Obama hand-picked GM President of the Board had to say about his being chosen..."Well, I don't know much about cars". Awesome. Funny though, Katie Couric hasn't touched on that one, I don't believe. See, I don't even watch Katie and I feel pretty assured that she did not cover that...As I am that her coverage of Dr. Tiller was MUCH more extensive than that of Pvt. Long...But I digress...I just can't help myself...When O was elected, I told my wife, "well, the next few years will be entertaining. Boy has he delivered!

Speaking for myself, I could care if I am in the political minority. I don't believe that I am, because there are 100's of lurkers out there, and well, they don't call us the "silent majority" for nothing (as you will see in 2010).

[soxfan22]

I
I opened this topic, because Iran was a new subject, and I got curious. But how disappointing it is to follow it.

I'm not sure what was disppointing about my OP:

Today, the great people of Iran have an opportunity to send that Holocaust-denying anti-semite tyrant of theirs packing (Ahmadinejad), and vote in a man who promises more freedoms, more liberty, and less angst towards the western world (Mousavi).

This could be a huge development in the middle east - if they have the inclination to show this man the door.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090612/D98P4UIG0.html

Was it the "Holocaust-denying, antisemite tyrant" rhetoric? Those are all true. I thought this was something that, as citizens of the world (as we are now, rather than Americans), we could all agree on.

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[Wakey]

Linne, if you are an outsider I guess all of us that don't live in the VI are

I don't participate directly in the political threads for the same reason you don't, because they get heated and usually, mean spirited.

The same thing goes at parties, don't discuss politics or religion.

And Anthony, sorry I mischaracterized your thoughts on the matter, I guess I was hoping what I said is how you felt

[loria]

right now, at least, Iran is not a surprising place--and that's just too damn bad.
but it may surprise us yet.

[jclampet]

I guess the big question should be, why, and what? Why would you bother with this type of issue here? What do you intend to gain? Respectfully. Folks are trying to figure out how to make life a little more enjoyable on a personnal level here, not tackle world issues. Hit a political blog with this and you will find it more interesting for both yourself and your audiance.

[soxfan22]

right now, at least, Iran is not a surprising place--and that's just too damn bad.
but it may surprise us yet.

Let us hope - and hope that the surprise comes in a positive way. Looks like status quo for now, which is too bad.

[jmq]

It just kills me Dave because for years, anticapitalism, anti defense, pro-abortion, pro gay marriage people on this board (you know who you are) would mix in snide little comments about George W. Bush right into the "normal" discourse...They wouldn't even start a new thread, they would just make off the cuff smart-ass remarks as part of their posts - and nothing was ever said. This happened with great frequency.

Sox – I’ve been around here pretty regular since 2004 and my first thoughts reading this were: Really?? When?? “Snide” off the cuff comments and “smart-ass remarks” about Bush made “for years” and “with great frequency” and I missed them?? Because I do enjoy me a good snarky political putdown, especially those that shine a light on hypocrisy and failure. Just check my DVR – its cluttered with Daily Shows and Colbert Reports.

Please correct me if I’m wrong, but prior to the new format implemented in Aug 2006, hardly any “off topic” stuff was discussed ever, let alone political stuff - directly, indirectly, or as an aside. In fact, the vast majority of posts were about pretty mundane basic things – you know, the usual suspects that newbies bring up. What the forum has morphed into from those rather genteel days is whole different issue.

That said, before posting this, I tried to test the validity of your assertion using the search tool on the stuff posted since 2006. I did a search for “Bush” and it returned 117 topic headings that had posts in them that contained that name or word. 30 of those 117 were prior to the creation of the “Off Topic Forum” in Nov 2007. None of those have a political topic heading. I looked at a random sample of the posts in 10 of those 30 topics and couldn’t find anything that could be characterized as insulting to the former President. Of the 87 other search results that got hits for “Bush”, 31 had headings that were clearly politically driven, almost all on the Off Topic Forum when the gloves were off during the campaign season, so they were fair game. Then, did a random sample of 15 of the other 56 topic headings that didn’t have politically driven headings that had posts in them that contained that word and again, couldn’t find anything out of line or out of context. Also did a search of “GWB”. Got 9 matches, 8 of them clearly political and therefore legit, one an innocuous reference on a KC thread.

Not saying it never happened, but “frequent” Bush bashing within the “normal discourse”??

This limited look at the data confirms what my gut told me: that at best, you are vastly overstating your case to make a point, and at worst, this was a disingenuous and deliberate distortion, a classic (but rather lame) attempt to “flip the script”, taken right out of the Rove/Hannity/Limbaugh playbook. Anybody who as been around here for any length of time knows that it is you who most frequently takes advantage of almost any opportunity dealing with current events to comment about the current administration, Democrats, Liberals, etc. Which is your right to do.

In fact, I would venture to say for every one “snide little comment about George W. Bush” that may have been made in “the ‘normal’ discourse” that you can find, anybody can here find multiple times when you threw political chum in the water on almost any quasi-political or current event thread. Sometimes though, it seemed like this was done not to only state your opinion, but just to stir up the waters and/or provoke a response. And if you got a response, all the better! That enabled you to parse or twist the words and intent of the reply to justify going on one of those patented SoxFan rants full of quotes and bold font that Dave likes, but others have come to view as sore loser Chicken Little diatribes and trite propaganda. From there it sometimes devolved into name calling, use of harsh metaphors, and away from the civil discourse Anthony prefers and most folks come to this forum for.

It became rather predictable. The same can be said about the knee jerk replies you get when you do this. But an argument could be may that maybe you made your bed on that with the harsh righteous tone you have employed in the past (hey, did I just flip the script? I learn quick!)

Of course, there are those who share your views and enjoy Obama bashing. And there are those that don’t share your views but who feel compelled to fight that fight. But it seems like less people are taking that bait. Perhaps they got tired of enabling zealotry and tormenting themselves by replying. Then there are those who say please, both sides, just stop already and go elsewhere for this stuff. These predictable patterns don’t even faze me anymore and by now, everybody should know what they’re in for if they participate on the forum.

But, to get back to the main point: that attempt to justify your right to carry on like you do came off sounding kinda phony to me and may even further erode whatever credibility you have left. I’m sure you’ll correct me if you think I’m wrong.