usvi-on-line
A St. John mystery -- do you have one?
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greyhoundmom
- Posts: 978
- Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2007 3:06 pm
- Location: Columbia South Carolina
I always remember our first year in Cruz Bay with our 17 yr old. Right before the police station a laid back guy sitting on the stone wall offered the 17 yr old his blunt which was the size of a huge cigar! I'm thinking, what are we, chopped liver???? Next door to police station, surreal....we are definitely on island time!
WARNING:
Contains material that may not be suitable for those who wish to believe that nothing negative ever happens on St. John!
LEX--
You would be surprised to know how much belief in obeah and jumbies there is on St. John. Maybe not in the youngest generations, but certainly the oldtime St. Johnians... and remember, ancestral St. Johnians are only about 10% of the black population. Dominica, St. Lucia, Nevis and a few other islands were the source of the 1960's and '70's immigrants, the D.R. and Haiti are the more recent "labor"class. All of these islands have their own particular versions....
Fortunately, there is no longer the pervasive belief here that many white men are werewolves, which led to the killing of a donkey in a case of mistaken identity one moonlit night on the north shore trail in the 1930's (Wolf, donkey...same difference).
The most mysterious place on St. John, by far, is the Denis Bay/Jumbie Bay area. Native St. Johnians would not set foot there after dark, and everyone who lived there eventually got used to the noises and lights all night. Almost all "continentals" felt these presences were benign, but in the late 1960's the Wadsworths (who are a loooong story themselves) had house guests that included a woman who had a reputation as a clairvoyant.... short version:
She immediately said she couldn't stay there, she felt the hills closing in, etc.
There was not, however, any choice about leaving. The Wadsworths did not drive, and their St. Johnian caretaker,Thomas Thomas, had made a brisk departure as the shadows lengthened in the afternoon. The lady had a sleepless night and arose early to the calm innocence of a St. John morning. Tempted by the shallow clear water, she changed into her suit and went in for a dip...and drowned, by herself, in 3 feet of water. (No, I'm not the current caretaker trying to scare people away, but Larry might thank me for this one).
Contains material that may not be suitable for those who wish to believe that nothing negative ever happens on St. John!
LEX--
You would be surprised to know how much belief in obeah and jumbies there is on St. John. Maybe not in the youngest generations, but certainly the oldtime St. Johnians... and remember, ancestral St. Johnians are only about 10% of the black population. Dominica, St. Lucia, Nevis and a few other islands were the source of the 1960's and '70's immigrants, the D.R. and Haiti are the more recent "labor"class. All of these islands have their own particular versions....
Fortunately, there is no longer the pervasive belief here that many white men are werewolves, which led to the killing of a donkey in a case of mistaken identity one moonlit night on the north shore trail in the 1930's (Wolf, donkey...same difference).
The most mysterious place on St. John, by far, is the Denis Bay/Jumbie Bay area. Native St. Johnians would not set foot there after dark, and everyone who lived there eventually got used to the noises and lights all night. Almost all "continentals" felt these presences were benign, but in the late 1960's the Wadsworths (who are a loooong story themselves) had house guests that included a woman who had a reputation as a clairvoyant.... short version:
She immediately said she couldn't stay there, she felt the hills closing in, etc.
There was not, however, any choice about leaving. The Wadsworths did not drive, and their St. Johnian caretaker,Thomas Thomas, had made a brisk departure as the shadows lengthened in the afternoon. The lady had a sleepless night and arose early to the calm innocence of a St. John morning. Tempted by the shallow clear water, she changed into her suit and went in for a dip...and drowned, by herself, in 3 feet of water. (No, I'm not the current caretaker trying to scare people away, but Larry might thank me for this one).
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donkey-boy
- Posts: 43
- Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:50 pm
- Location: Fish Bay
this is an outrage# why must donkeys die for the sins of werewolves? ~db~hugo wrote:Fortunately, there is no longer the pervasive belief here that many white men are werewolves, which led to the killing of a donkey in a case of mistaken identity one moonlit night on the north shore trail in the 1930's (Wolf, donkey...same difference).
The most mysterious place on St. John, by far, is the Denis Bay/Jumbie Bay area. Native St. Johnians would not set foot there after dark, and everyone who lived there eventually got used to the noises and lights all night.
Hugo,
What a story! It's funny, I'm generally not a "ghosty" type of person, but after a lot of reading about the history of St. John, it's hard not to be aware. And, I confess, there are some places on St. John where I feel a little creeped out. One place is the swim from Cinnamon to Little Cinnamon. Another is Jumbie, although I love it there.
And here's help to the current caretaker at Denis Bay -- the one time we hiked the trail down to Denis Bay and were making our way along the shore, the ruins of the slave quarters in the forest were a haunting presence. We knew not to go near the private property of those who live there, but I somehow got the feeling the owners were not the only ones who didn't want us there...
It was our first visit with our children. We were innocently sitting outside of Woodys and a local woman walked by, stopped in front of me and screamed at the top of her lungs "YOU CU**!"
Then she just walked away. Someone mentioned her name once, we saw her maybe once or twice more, but haven't seen her in years.
Who was she and what happened to her?
Then she just walked away. Someone mentioned her name once, we saw her maybe once or twice more, but haven't seen her in years.
Who was she and what happened to her?
"Sponges grow in the ocean...I wonder how much deeper it would be if that didn't happen."
That could have been LaLuna, and she's still right here, although taking her medication most of the time, so she's fine.
Here's another mystery:
The Great Pit Of Bordeaux!
Very near the highest point on St. John, on the highest of the several almost equal hills of Bordeaux, there is a big hole in the ground. It's a perfectly symmetrical, about 9 feet across and over 15 ft. deep. it is obviously old, but not that old--there are no large trees growing in it. The soil has a high clay content, so the sides are not at all eroded. Your first reaction is that someone was digging a well, and eventually realized that the top of a mountain might not be the ideal spot.
So.... from many years ago, I heard members of the Marsh family tell a story of how a group of strangers sailed into Coral Bay in perhaps the late 1910's. They rented horses from the Marshes on Estate Carolina (yes, DB, horses, NOt donkeys, the Marshes were high class) and went up Bordeaux with a lot of equipment. Two days later they came down with a big box (chest?) and sailed away. Sometime later the "mystery pit" was discovered.
Addenda:
Burying treasure 15 ft. deep on top of a mountain makes about as much sense as digging a well there.
Possibly related facts:It is recorded an American mineral company did test Bordeaux for valuable metals at about this time--copper, silver, etc. It's possible that the "treasure" party was on a somewhat more mundane mission than the Marsh family grasped--a short step from assaying to hoarding.
The pit still doesn't make much sense.
A prominent local historian has now said that it's obviously just a hog trap. Hunters could chase the pig up out of Reef Bay Valley and run it into a chute of corrugated roofing that ended at the pit. Makes all kinds of sense, except...15 feet deep? If you've ever dug a hole on St. JOhn, you KNOW you don't go one inch deeper than you have to! Were the hogs bigger back then?
Here's another mystery:
The Great Pit Of Bordeaux!
Very near the highest point on St. John, on the highest of the several almost equal hills of Bordeaux, there is a big hole in the ground. It's a perfectly symmetrical, about 9 feet across and over 15 ft. deep. it is obviously old, but not that old--there are no large trees growing in it. The soil has a high clay content, so the sides are not at all eroded. Your first reaction is that someone was digging a well, and eventually realized that the top of a mountain might not be the ideal spot.
So.... from many years ago, I heard members of the Marsh family tell a story of how a group of strangers sailed into Coral Bay in perhaps the late 1910's. They rented horses from the Marshes on Estate Carolina (yes, DB, horses, NOt donkeys, the Marshes were high class) and went up Bordeaux with a lot of equipment. Two days later they came down with a big box (chest?) and sailed away. Sometime later the "mystery pit" was discovered.
Addenda:
Burying treasure 15 ft. deep on top of a mountain makes about as much sense as digging a well there.
Possibly related facts:It is recorded an American mineral company did test Bordeaux for valuable metals at about this time--copper, silver, etc. It's possible that the "treasure" party was on a somewhat more mundane mission than the Marsh family grasped--a short step from assaying to hoarding.
The pit still doesn't make much sense.
A prominent local historian has now said that it's obviously just a hog trap. Hunters could chase the pig up out of Reef Bay Valley and run it into a chute of corrugated roofing that ended at the pit. Makes all kinds of sense, except...15 feet deep? If you've ever dug a hole on St. JOhn, you KNOW you don't go one inch deeper than you have to! Were the hogs bigger back then?
Some of the boat captains might somehow link it to Oprah or Kenny. Might do better stopping by Guy Benjamin's to see what he knows about it.
The first time we hiked the Johnny Horn trail we did run into some spookiness. Not supernatural, but still quite spooky. This was back before the computer/forum era and information wasn't so accessible. The trail runs far from habitation and we were disturbed to come upon pieces clothing strewn around in the bush at several places beside the trail. None of the explanations we could come up with were very comforting and it creeped us out pretty good. It gave the day kind of an ominous feel. Later we talked about it with some folks who explained that it was probably left there by illegal immigrants who had come ashore at Brown Bay. They bring a change of clothes in plastic and just leave the wet clothing that they came ashore in. It was a much more pleasant explanation than any we had come up with. Since then we've seen discarded clothing a few more times on the Johnny Horn and at Haulover. But whenever i think about this, I still have a question. If I was jumping out of a boat to slip ashore, I think I'd want to get my clothes off before I got in the water. Seems it would make it harder to swim/wade if I kept them on. Leave them on the boat or just toss them in the water before getting out of the boat. Of course I have no experience in smuggling, so there may be considerations that I'm not aware of.
The first time we hiked the Johnny Horn trail we did run into some spookiness. Not supernatural, but still quite spooky. This was back before the computer/forum era and information wasn't so accessible. The trail runs far from habitation and we were disturbed to come upon pieces clothing strewn around in the bush at several places beside the trail. None of the explanations we could come up with were very comforting and it creeped us out pretty good. It gave the day kind of an ominous feel. Later we talked about it with some folks who explained that it was probably left there by illegal immigrants who had come ashore at Brown Bay. They bring a change of clothes in plastic and just leave the wet clothing that they came ashore in. It was a much more pleasant explanation than any we had come up with. Since then we've seen discarded clothing a few more times on the Johnny Horn and at Haulover. But whenever i think about this, I still have a question. If I was jumping out of a boat to slip ashore, I think I'd want to get my clothes off before I got in the water. Seems it would make it harder to swim/wade if I kept them on. Leave them on the boat or just toss them in the water before getting out of the boat. Of course I have no experience in smuggling, so there may be considerations that I'm not aware of.
At 95 Guy Benjamin is full of love and on his way to sainthood, but his memory is getting a little shaky on the details...but thank you, it gave me an idea of someone to ask.
As far as the alien clothes, i've wondered about this myself. Some factors:1. they are often let off on reefy, rocky shore that make protection of the body very attractive (but not always,as at Brown Bay). 2. Haitians may well have a far deeper sense of modesty than you would expect,so a mixed gender group would be reluctant to be even partially nude. I've not been to Haiti, but not long ago on St. John, or any of the other African-Westindian islands, you would not see grown-ups in bathing suits, but pretty well covered in the water. Nakedness in any form was shameful, although children often wore nothing even on land. Any visitor who's ever gotten a tongue-lashing for wearing their bikini into Starfish has experienced the residue of this. American television has noticeably changed the cultural mores in recent years.
They also may not be expecting to be dropped off in the water. The ones I've talked with always thought they were on St. Thomas, if not Florida.... I won't go into my feelings about Chinese getting political amnesty while Haitians are returned to Haiti.
As far as the alien clothes, i've wondered about this myself. Some factors:1. they are often let off on reefy, rocky shore that make protection of the body very attractive (but not always,as at Brown Bay). 2. Haitians may well have a far deeper sense of modesty than you would expect,so a mixed gender group would be reluctant to be even partially nude. I've not been to Haiti, but not long ago on St. John, or any of the other African-Westindian islands, you would not see grown-ups in bathing suits, but pretty well covered in the water. Nakedness in any form was shameful, although children often wore nothing even on land. Any visitor who's ever gotten a tongue-lashing for wearing their bikini into Starfish has experienced the residue of this. American television has noticeably changed the cultural mores in recent years.
They also may not be expecting to be dropped off in the water. The ones I've talked with always thought they were on St. Thomas, if not Florida.... I won't go into my feelings about Chinese getting political amnesty while Haitians are returned to Haiti.
i don't think this is a mystery--but there used to be an elderly woman who dressed all in white and would walk along 107 up between say johns folly area and calabash boom area. SHe would often glare and never spoke and i remember seeing her at night at times (she looked rather spectral)--i haven't seen her in several trips. I always wondered what her story was though.
< leaving on the 22nd of march...but too lame to figure out the ticker thing again!>
hugo
You're really a treasure trove of history, legend and insightful opinion. What else do you know about? Or how about just make up some good stuff? Most of us will never know the difference.
But really, there are places to learn the history, but you've got a lot of the word of mouth, oral history, that doesn't get written down. Don't hesitate to share whenever you have a mind to.
You're really a treasure trove of history, legend and insightful opinion. What else do you know about? Or how about just make up some good stuff? Most of us will never know the difference.
But really, there are places to learn the history, but you've got a lot of the word of mouth, oral history, that doesn't get written down. Don't hesitate to share whenever you have a mind to.
My mystery occurs when we park in the lower parking lot of Trunk Bay.
As soon as I'm outside of the car, I smell the sweetest scent, which seems to come from beyond the wall of the northernmost parking spaces reserved for taxis. (A distant memory hints of the aroma of ganja.)
I've discussed w/ Gerald Singer, and he says that its Bay Rum.
Regardless, I wish they bottled that stuff.
As soon as I'm outside of the car, I smell the sweetest scent, which seems to come from beyond the wall of the northernmost parking spaces reserved for taxis. (A distant memory hints of the aroma of ganja.)
I've discussed w/ Gerald Singer, and he says that its Bay Rum.
Regardless, I wish they bottled that stuff.