a question about doors for villa owners and renters

loria · Post by **loria** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 4:50 pm

Hi, I posted this on my blog-- but thought i would get a much broader audience here-- the house we are renovating currently has several sets of french doors (that all need to be replaced)--the house is on a hill facing east towards norman Island..so it gets a lot of wind. We have been warned by some that the wind will wreak havoc with our french doors and that if we are putting the house on the rental market the french doors will be especially liable to issues/breakage since some renters may not bother to lock them into place when they open them, the wind will catch them and they will be slamming around, etc, etc. -- however, french doors really make the look of the house ! Sliders just would not do the same thing and with houses i have rented i have found that sliders get sticky, the screens can be problematic (and need frequent replacing?) I would like to hear the experiences of renters and owners with regard to french doors (especially in a windy place!) versus sliders (pro- con anything!)-- thanks!

casalafamiglia · Post by **casalafamiglia** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:11 pm

Having just finished our home, I can tell you that everyone who builds or renovates has issues with doors and windows. The humidity, heat and exposure to the harsh elements do havoc on them. I am all about the looks and my husband is all about the function. We have beautiful custom mahogany slider doors in our Great Room that overlook Klein Bay. They look lovely and the solid glass doors framed by the mahogany shows off the water and sky. I can tell you that we have heard of exactly what your friends warned you about. Even if guests are reminded by your villa manager to lock/close them well, if there is no wind, they may not! And then of course, when they go to the beach, the big winds come. There is maintenance with whatever you pick unfortunately. Good luck and congratulations.

longingstjohn · Post by **longingstjohn** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:43 pm

Owning one and planning the build of yet another villa, i will confirm Christine's concerns. Doors will not always be closed or locked in the open position by renters. Sliders, provide a beautiful wall to wall view, but create an issue with maintenance and hazard to weather.

having said that, i am still planning at least one large wall of sliders in my current build/project. personally i just like them. the ability to open an entire wall to the outside appeals to me. Of course i will likely be over ruled by my wife....the Supreme Exalted Ruler.....but that is a question of the ages....

If a man makes a statement in the middle of the ocean.....alone, is he still wrong?

brian.

Bigcheeze · Post by **Bigcheeze** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:19 pm

I would vote for French doors at Home and sliders for the rental. While The French Doors look nice...it's the view and what will be most economical...from a renter's standpoint. We have always liked a 'wall' of sliding doors and in some cases, they slid out of the way and were not something that could be tripped on with the deck.

loria · Post by **loria** » Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:48 pm

i think that with either option we'd go with impact glass-- so while not bullet proof certainly sturdy (or more so) -- the concern is really with wear and tear due to tenants and wind-- what wears better?

Betty · Post by **Betty** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:06 am

Go for practicality, you will be an off island homeowner that does not need maintenance issues! Maintenance issues mean more bills from your rental agency and less income for you! Renters do not treat your home as you would nor do they appreciate your home the way you do.
Someday when your spending more time down here and you want to change the doors out you can.

Anything Mahogany outside is going to need a lot of attention and maintenance. Salt and sun wreaks havoc with a varnished wood finish. Think of a Mahogany boat, they are on lakes, not salt water for a reason. You will be sanding and refinishing the finish every year. Not to mention the wood swelling and shrinking according to humidity levels. If you have very deep pockets and a staff it is fine but your renters will not care if it is Mahogany or Anderson Hurricane Sliders. The owners of the house at the end of Ditlif Point are redoing their Mahogany French doors right now, they have become ruined by the salt and the sun out there. They have only been finished for about 2 plus years and are replacing windows and doors. Luckily they have deep pockets, but the owner is not happy about it. The reason I know is my old GC is doing all the work.

With the Anderson Hurricane Sliders you can get the wood trim inside to stain or pickle as we did and do the *Fibrex on the outside trim. My other suggestion do not do white trim on your windows and doors, they show every fingerprint,ding, sahara dust, Montserrat ash, mashed bugs etc. Get the Sandtone or Terratone for the outdoor trim. Washing white trim is not fun and it is just more work your going to hire someone to do. Guests do notice when things are dirty looking, best to go with a dirt colored finish. This from experience!

My other suggestion as an owner who rents, maximize your view, do not install closed in, paned windows, renters want big views from inside or outside. If your doors are smaller for the size of the room, put your money making the door space larger, 8 -9 foot tall sliders vs standard size. It is all about the view with renters.

This also goes for railings around the house, your guests want to be able to see through them when sitting on a lounge chair. Go for the cable wire aluminum railings, maintenance free and clear views

Coconuts · Post by **Coconuts** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 7:10 am

Lori: View doors are important, expensive, and your choices here really matter, for both your future guests and yourselves. All solutions have their pros and cons, and your challenge will be to pick the best compromise, taking into account the constraints of your existing masonry home design, and the specific wind conditions at your location.

Have you stayed at Windswept yet? My first advice would be to spend a week or more there, living with the existing French doors, and seeing how they fare. The home appears fairly new; what exactly is it about the current doors that requires that they be replaced? A week at this time of the year will also give you a good sense of the wind at your specific location. While St. John has the prevailing trade winds, local topography can soften or amplify the wind speeds dramatically. Our lot on Mamey Peak faces east, and we expected it to have strong winds from there, but the surrounding hills redirect and soften the trades to a mild breeze from the south! Conversely, a home we looked at on the Coral Bay hillside, as well as one we rented on Boatman Point, had abnormally high winds that were focused by the local terrain, such that even a half-open slider would blow things around inside.

One bold option is to use electric roll-down shutters. We rented Casa Ya Ya and Stone House, which chose this approach (I hear that Casa Ya Ya has since gone with sliders). Roll down shutters gives you a totally unobstructed view when the shutters are up, and serves as hurricane protection, but if you close them in the daytime, you feel as though you were in a bunker. Leaving them open can lead to stuff blowing around inside, as well as allowing birds, insects, and rain in. Guests would probably be pretty good at pushing the down button before they head out for the day. I'm not recommending this approach, but it is one choice. They can also be retrofitted to most openings.

There are three basic ways to do sliders. In one, such as NanaWall, the glass panels hinge open, and allow you to fully open the aperture to the view. They are expensive, and require some space along the walls, but are straightforward to retrofit. In another slider variant, the panels slide into pockets in the wall; this might be hard to retrofit. The third approach is the sort of slider that we use on our residential homes, where half of the opening always has glass, and the second half slides over the first, possibly with a screen. This approach is inexpensive, but is less than ideal as far as the view is concerned. It might work for the bedrooms.

Plumeria is all French doors, while Coconuts has a mix of French doors and traditional bedroom sliders. We really like the French doors, but since they open onto the courtyard or face west, and Gifft Hill has gentle breezes, our experience isn't directly applicable. You need to spend some time with the French doors at Windswept, and see how they work there. Your roof or porch overhangs look deep enough to keep out wind-driven rain, and there are ways to easily latch French doors open, and soften the impact should they they slam open or shut. With proper communication and signage, most or nearly all guests will be responsible enough to at least close (if not lock) the doors before leaving the villa for the day.

Hope this helps.

All the best,

Kevin

PA Girl · Post by **PA Girl** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:59 am

We are debating slider versus French doors at our weekend house. One thing that is leading us towards sliding doors is the footprint required for French doors. Do you have the room to accommodate the swing? Will the French doors impact furniture placement?

PA Girl · Post by **PA Girl** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:03 am

Is there a reason you need to replace them now? Like Kevin said, why not live with them for a awhile, at least until one or two swing open in the wind and break?

poidog · Post by **poidog** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 10:22 am

loria wrote:i think that with either option we'd go with impact glass-- so while not bullet proof certainly sturdy (or more so)

Lori - So you know, and you don't have any misconceptions... hurricane impact glass is no more sturdier than regular glass. It will still crack just the same/or as easy as regular glass. What's different is it's layer of lamination that is sandwiched between two panes of glass. The lamination is what holds the the broken glass together and keeps wind from compromising the window/door opening.

Betty · Post by **Betty** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:42 pm

I like our Anderson Hurricane Doors and Windows, it has a finish that does not allow you to see inside the house during day light hours, but gives a clear view from inside the house out.
and what Eric said about the Hurricane Glass is right, anyone that is concerned about hurricanes should have shutters. I chose the hurricane windows so if they are hit, the glass just crackles and stays in place. If we have a bad hurricane down here it will take a while to replace the doors, order them ship them etc. We can live with a crackle glass on a window until it is repaired, living with no glass would be not be a fun option.

longingstjohn · Post by **longingstjohn** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:05 pm

to gain hurricane rating the door/window glass must withstand a 9 pound 2 by 4 with 34 mile velocity. does not mean it will not crack or break, but that the object will not propel through.

roll down hurricane shutters are on my list.

b.

loria · Post by **loria** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 4:58 pm

poidog-- understand the issues with impact glass....
coconuts-- those were some good alternatives!
we hav had slamming doors here for a long time (i have teenagers-- they slam in the wind, they slam when going out-- they just slam constantly ! it's an andersen door -- so not particularly top of the line....but it has never had an issue. ever. but we are not as exposed here (obviously)

loria · Post by **loria** » Thu Mar 13, 2014 5:00 pm

oh and yeah-- they need to replaced NOW. despite the age of the house a lot of corners were cut and maintenance deferred -- and it's really something of a mess....

Pia · Post by **Pia** » Fri Mar 14, 2014 8:18 am

Lori

Do check out CGI. We love our doors and they can "supposedly" withstand a 2'x4' at 200mph - hope we never find out...
http://cgiwindows.com/view-our-doors/#.UyLyGijRrQc

Pia

usvi-on-line