usvi-on-line
The Coral Bay Hotel issue
The Coral Bay Hotel issue
Predictably not everyone likes the idea:
http://stjohnsource.com/content/news/lo ... -reception
The developers' view vs. the community's view.
I most enjoyed the ideas of bus travel, although there are a few pretty amusing ideas.
http://stjohnsource.com/content/news/lo ... -reception
The developers' view vs. the community's view.
I most enjoyed the ideas of bus travel, although there are a few pretty amusing ideas.
sounds like it got almost hostile--were they really saying that if they couldn't do the hotel they'd do something alot more 'destructive'? a casino? yikes.... I think that the proposal for a third story is overwhelming and makes the project too big. even 16 rooms makes me wonder.... and how would they deal with the music from Cases (among other things) and the bus issue? really? you are staying in coral bay and you won't need a car? oooooookaaayyyyyyy. 
Obviously it would be good to have the voyages property being used for something. I am not sure the current vision will work.
Obviously it would be good to have the voyages property being used for something. I am not sure the current vision will work.< leaving on the 22nd of march...but too lame to figure out the ticker thing again!>
Doesn't seem that these developers paid much attention to the community during their planning. They certainly don't seem to have any sense of what residents were thinking and, in some areas, don't seem to have done any homework at all. (I can't imagine that the VITRAN strategy didn't get lots of smirks, chuckles and eye-rolling. Didn't build trust and credibility.). They did apparently make a donation to one of the churches, which earned them one gentleman's support, but it doesn't sound like they picked up any support at the hearing. I doubt that they reassured anyone. If anything, they may have solidified the opposition. I doubt the "It's not as bad as a casino" strategy will go over well. Nor does the "It has to be big or we won't be able to turn a profit" strategy seem very effective. I'm hoping that Grande Bay, Sirenusa and Pond Bay are fresh enough in people's memories that this will be viewed cautiously when it comes to zoning variances.
Voyages--from concept to reality-- was weird enough. STJ is a funny place to do business. Or to even try to do business. I don't know if they're really as clueless about Coral Bay as the article suggests. They should have hired a taxi driver to be their advisor. Possibly to be their spokesman, too.
Voyages--from concept to reality-- was weird enough. STJ is a funny place to do business. Or to even try to do business. I don't know if they're really as clueless about Coral Bay as the article suggests. They should have hired a taxi driver to be their advisor. Possibly to be their spokesman, too.
Lex - it's really strange as they have lived here for 3 years, own a home by Shipwreck and Karen (one of the new owners when they close) has worked for the Coral Bay Community Council and the Island Green Building Association so they should "get it" but clearly they have never tried to use the bus as they would know 1) no luggage allowed on the bus 2) it's unreliable and 3) if guests are paying $200 per night (what is what has been said they need to charge to turn a profit) they will rent a car - it's not like they will charge $50 per night where you might expect guests paying that rate to be more budget conscious.
on-stjohn recently interviewed the couple - here is the link.
Pia
http://www.on-stjohn.com/2011/08/25/mor ... le-future/
on-stjohn recently interviewed the couple - here is the link.
Pia
http://www.on-stjohn.com/2011/08/25/mor ... le-future/
Realtor - St John Properties
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Capn Dan and Ruby
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Teresa_Rae
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- Location: Downstate IL
I'm of two minds on this issue. While the idea of putting another floor on the existing Voyages building and expecting that most of their guests will arrive via cab or VITRAN borders on the ludicrous and the whole scheme a little over the top for Coral Bay, I hate to see that great space die from neglect.
When it was Voyages we had some great evenings there. While I can't remember that the food was exceptional, the space was. We have some fond memories of the place. One evening, our son watched his mother and father dance out the front door as we caught our ride home. He takes great pleasure in reminding us. It is a very nice piece of real estate that might have been too much for Coral Bay in first place but it is really very pleasant to be in there. Perhaps they can turn the existing building into an inn and convince Sweet Plantains to move down the street and join them. Just dreaming but I hate to see that building just sit there.
When it was Voyages we had some great evenings there. While I can't remember that the food was exceptional, the space was. We have some fond memories of the place. One evening, our son watched his mother and father dance out the front door as we caught our ride home. He takes great pleasure in reminding us. It is a very nice piece of real estate that might have been too much for Coral Bay in first place but it is really very pleasant to be in there. Perhaps they can turn the existing building into an inn and convince Sweet Plantains to move down the street and join them. Just dreaming but I hate to see that building just sit there.
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designbyroe
- Posts: 1348
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- Location: Chilaxin on White Bay at least in my mind
I do agree.......sad to see the building just stay vacant. I really like the idea of sweet plaintains being the restaurant of the inn.BillVT wrote:I'm of two minds on this issue. While the idea of putting another floor on the existing Voyages building and expecting that most of their guests will arrive via cab or VITRAN borders on the ludicrous and the whole scheme a little over the top for Coral Bay, I hate to see that great space die from neglect.
When it was Voyages we had some great evenings there. While I can't remember that the food was exceptional, the space was. We have some fond memories of the place. One evening, our son watched his mother and father dance out the front door as we caught our ride home. He takes great pleasure in reminding us. It is a very nice piece of real estate that might have been too much for Coral Bay in first place but it is really very pleasant to be in there. Perhaps they can turn the existing building into an inn and convince Sweet Plantains to move down the street and join them. Just dreaming but I hate to see that building just sit there.
All in all it just seem strange
There's no $ sign on a peace of mind, this I've come to know
Let's keep in mind that we are getting our information from a news report. None of us were in the hearing that night. It would not surprise me to find that the quotes in that story are fragments of a much longer statement. By selecting a piece of the comment outside of its context the entire meaning is changed.
As an example: "Later, Karen Vahling said that they could do something a lot more “destructive” than a hotel."
I could see the entire comment being about her explaining that all sorts of things that are more destructive are already allowed without a zoning change. She might have said that her proposal is a positive reuse and that "we could do something a lot more destructive than a hotel without a zoning change, but we don't want to do that." In light of that knowledge, the less intense, less destructive hotel would be better for Coral Bay than what another owner might do without a public hearing.
Keep in mind that we weren’t very far from having some sort of high density condos at Haulover Bay a few months ago.
The point of all of this is to suggest to you that you not make judgments about the applicants based on one person's interpretation of a single meeting. As you've seen on OSJ and from PIA, these people have a great deal of experience and are obviously very intelligent. For some people, all of that doesn’t matter when they get in front of a crowd. They become inarticulate and lose their poise. Even when that happens, that does not mean the application or applicant are defective.
JIM
As an example: "Later, Karen Vahling said that they could do something a lot more “destructive” than a hotel."
I could see the entire comment being about her explaining that all sorts of things that are more destructive are already allowed without a zoning change. She might have said that her proposal is a positive reuse and that "we could do something a lot more destructive than a hotel without a zoning change, but we don't want to do that." In light of that knowledge, the less intense, less destructive hotel would be better for Coral Bay than what another owner might do without a public hearing.
Keep in mind that we weren’t very far from having some sort of high density condos at Haulover Bay a few months ago.
The point of all of this is to suggest to you that you not make judgments about the applicants based on one person's interpretation of a single meeting. As you've seen on OSJ and from PIA, these people have a great deal of experience and are obviously very intelligent. For some people, all of that doesn’t matter when they get in front of a crowd. They become inarticulate and lose their poise. Even when that happens, that does not mean the application or applicant are defective.
JIM
Man it's like some dream we live down here....
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Xislandgirl
- Posts: 4163
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- Location: Slightly left of center
I think I agree with a litle bit of most posts.
1. Something needs to be done with the building
2. The article is written by a journalist that I have found to be very STJ centered and it seems quite one sided
3. I think the comments about the bus being a viable mode of transportation for guests is silly and most anyone that has been been to STJ on vaction would agree.
4. If the people of Coral Bay or anywhere on STJ do not want a hotel, then they should come prepared for suggestions on what the property can be used for. These are STJ residents that are spending their hard earned money on a long vacant piece of property. Should they let it sit vacant and fall into disrepair and lose their money? Is that what is best for Coral Bay and the island? Be part of the solution, don't just complain about the problem.
5. My personal opinion is that they need to work with the building as is; another story is too much for that area.
I wish them luck in finding a solution that is best for them and for the Coral Bay.
1. Something needs to be done with the building
2. The article is written by a journalist that I have found to be very STJ centered and it seems quite one sided
3. I think the comments about the bus being a viable mode of transportation for guests is silly and most anyone that has been been to STJ on vaction would agree.
4. If the people of Coral Bay or anywhere on STJ do not want a hotel, then they should come prepared for suggestions on what the property can be used for. These are STJ residents that are spending their hard earned money on a long vacant piece of property. Should they let it sit vacant and fall into disrepair and lose their money? Is that what is best for Coral Bay and the island? Be part of the solution, don't just complain about the problem.
5. My personal opinion is that they need to work with the building as is; another story is too much for that area.
I wish them luck in finding a solution that is best for them and for the Coral Bay.
I think that Coral Bay should secede from the USVI's and become a sovereign nation.
Seriously though, the building has been vacant for a long time. Something should be done with it.The original Voyagers was an ill- conceived, over ambitious place of business to begin with. A small inn, or a bed and breakfast type of place would be pretty non- offensive, but it would take great management, and a lot of luck to make it profitable enough to survive. At this point in time, I do wonder about how the lack of an existing sewer/septic infrastructure would handle that many guests and staff. I guess it's possible, as Cocolobo Plaza has done it.
To me, I have hated to see the progress of STJ in general, especially on that side of the island. I find it hard to believe that when Lawrence Rockafeller tried to perserve STJ as the pearl of the Caribbean, that he envisioned all of the villas and paved roads from Cruz Bay to Lamesure, with hundreds of rental cars traveling around. I think that when the next economic recovery happens a marina will get built, along with a condo complex, in Coral Bay. The "Key West-ing" of the whole island is inevitable.
Two revisions that I should add to the above post;
A: A huge difference between Cocolobo and a hotel of course, is that Cocolobo doesn't have people taking showers.
B: As far as the "whole island" getting Key West-ed, a huge percentage of the island is parkland, which is mostly protected from development. The "2/3" of the island being park is somewhat of a misnomer though, as some of that figure is water off of the shore. Everything outside of the park's borders though...
Seriously though, the building has been vacant for a long time. Something should be done with it.The original Voyagers was an ill- conceived, over ambitious place of business to begin with. A small inn, or a bed and breakfast type of place would be pretty non- offensive, but it would take great management, and a lot of luck to make it profitable enough to survive. At this point in time, I do wonder about how the lack of an existing sewer/septic infrastructure would handle that many guests and staff. I guess it's possible, as Cocolobo Plaza has done it.
To me, I have hated to see the progress of STJ in general, especially on that side of the island. I find it hard to believe that when Lawrence Rockafeller tried to perserve STJ as the pearl of the Caribbean, that he envisioned all of the villas and paved roads from Cruz Bay to Lamesure, with hundreds of rental cars traveling around. I think that when the next economic recovery happens a marina will get built, along with a condo complex, in Coral Bay. The "Key West-ing" of the whole island is inevitable.
Two revisions that I should add to the above post;
A: A huge difference between Cocolobo and a hotel of course, is that Cocolobo doesn't have people taking showers.
B: As far as the "whole island" getting Key West-ed, a huge percentage of the island is parkland, which is mostly protected from development. The "2/3" of the island being park is somewhat of a misnomer though, as some of that figure is water off of the shore. Everything outside of the park's borders though...
Last edited by JT on Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When you find yourself in a hole.... quit digging.