Grande Bay

[promoguy]

Easy to build and sell when lots of money's available. Ain't so easy when credit dries up. Unfortunate part is that lots of good folks have dumped money into an investment that may not materialize. That's the bad part.

[designbyroe]

They were about 85% done, from what I can see from below. I had heard that some units were occupied. Their marble floors won't seem quite as elegant in the middle of an abandoned construction mess!

The people that purchased can't they sue?
I know with Grande Bay the developer has a lawsuit or more against him, saying he offered one thing and they did not come thru

[kirk]

They were about 85% done, from what I can see from below. I had heard that some units were occupied. Their marble floors won't seem quite as elegant in the middle of an abandoned construction mess!

As of my lay off date, 85% would be close to actual structures built, not completed. Most of the buildings on the lower part of the site are shells. The one on the lower right if you're looking up from Cruz Bay, is 50% completed. meaning the upper unit is done and the lower isn't. What is being built next to it someday will be the clubhouse. The next three buildings are shells with some studs in place. some of which needs to be torn out as it was framed, then the floor plan changed. The far left building has some drywall up. As to the steel skeleton we all just love to look at, last I heard it was going to be shelled. there were two more of those buildings planed to be built. There are 5 units that to my knowledge have been sold. 4 of which have had people staying there.

[justanotherday]

Maybe when these developers said they would employ local people, they meant lawyers and mediators.

[hugo]

On the one hand, it can not be "good" for St. John to have these two monstrosities looming derelict and gothic in our landscape, on the other, I can't help thinking about all the additional rental cars, and sewage, and solid waste, and water trucks, and wasted WAPA energy....and, and...

[designbyroe]

Kirk, from your post I am guessing you were working on the building of Sirenuisance? If true and you lost your job I am sorry about that.
Hugo, when you say 2 monstrosities, are you talking about Grande Bay and Sirenuisance?
I wonder if Pond Bay will have all these issues?

[justanotherday]

Don't think Pond Bay will have the same problem. Just look at the tone of the construction project. They are building duplexes or quads, just like Rockefeller and his beloved Caneel Bay. Rockefeller could have built something similar like Grand Bay or Sirenusa, but didn't. The Pond Bay developer is very familiar with St. John and he knew what he was doing from the first time his shovel hit dirt. I know the lawyer in the states that put the deal together. The project was/is very well thought out. I recall talking to the developers of Grand Bay, they were counting their profits, 15 million, before construction even began. They said it was a "no brainer."

[designbyroe]

I remember when I lived on St. John and heard talk about Pond Bay.
I knew it had been in the works for a decade I think per Miles Stair.
I know many in Chocolate Hole are not enthused about it but it does not seem as out of place as Grande Bay.

[Joshie]

...

[designbyroe]

A boat captain told me that Pond Bay may be reconsidering its biz model.

Timeshare sales are lagging.

So, a more hotel-like approach is under consideration.

Anyone else hear anything?

-j

You mean make it like the Westin or Caneel?
Will they still have E'Spa?

[kirk]

Yes I did work there, for over a year. It was a great job while it lasted. I have never in life worked with such a great bunch of people, I'm not including the upper management in that group.
There is a saying around the job site. "How do you spell clusterf**k? "S-I-R-E-N-U-S-A".
As to pond bay. I'm hearing that there's some problem with the buildings starting to settle.

[hugo]

I hadn't heard that yet , Joshie, but I'm not surprised.
POnd Bay is not an attractive property, to me, and the density makes it extremely un-Caneel, but it is not monstrous like the other two-- especially Grande Bay,which effectively puts eight stories right on top of Cruz Bay beach. The individual buildings are only 5 stories ( the zoning allows three ! ), but from the harbor, the dock, or the Battery they stack up to one gruesomely ugly wall.
In the late 1950's after the Park was opened and the boundaries set, Laurance Rockefeller got the idea of trying to "save" Cruz Bay, which certainly hadn't been part of the Park deal. He set his emissaries to purchase land, and offered trades of his non-park land at Ditliff and Bellevue, but he didn't get too far. About late 1957, Dr. George Knight, our amiable dentist, gave the government an easement for a street along the water up to Gallows Point (the street had ended by what is now the corner of Wharfside). Rockefeller was furious ...there went his plan of preservation out the window. The whole plan was abandoned the following year due to other, more irreparable, ruptures. That street somehow doesn't seem like a big deal now!
While I'm dedicated to preservation, the Rockefeller plan would have been terribly damaging to the St. JOhn community. It did a lot of damage anyway, in creating mistrust and opposition at a time when people were having second thoughts about the Park, but that's another story again. Still, wouldn't it have been nice if he'd paid people big bucks then for scenic easements that controlled the type of future development that could occur?

[hugo]

Well yes, buildings do tend to settle when you build them on sand and coral rubble.

[lprof]

In the university town where I live several "condo-hotels" were in various stages of construction until the economy smacked.
This idea is one in which the owner buys a unit to use whenever and as often as he likes, as in buying a condo; full hotel service to that unit is available as the owner desires. When the owner is not using the unit, the hotel rents it out (on a rotating basis with others) like any regular room or suite in the hotel.
While in Miami Beach recently, we stayed in a suite that was "owned". It was like any other hotel suite and well equipped, had maid service, etc. There was an owners' lounge and private pool. It seems like an idea that works...I do not know anything about the actual mechanisms or legalities involved. It is something like a time-share but different.
Perhaps this is similar to the model to which Joshie's boat captain friend was referring.

[captainjay]

Kirk
Sorry to From the last time we talked to you at the beach bar it sounded like the end was near. I can't remeber the details but there is a chapter in Don't stop the carnival that talks about developers from the states getting a project half done, loosing all of the there money then the bank taking it back and selling it to some one else for half price or so to finish it. Sounds about right. A little market "adjustment" in price and costs, a new project manager and likely a different managment team will eventually put that thing together. In the mean time it will be what it is the big mistake on the hill.
Jay