usvi-on-line
DELETED
we did, and, we won.jimg20 wrote:To paraphrase that great American hero John McCain, if you want to run against John Kerry, you should have run four years ago.soxfan22 wrote:So is John Kerry...
JIM
July 2003 - Honeymoon at The Westin
July 2004 - Glenmar, Gifft Hill
July 2005 - Arco Iris, Fish Bay
December 2007 - Dreamcatcher, GCB
July 2008 - Ellison Villa, VGE
July 2004 - Glenmar, Gifft Hill
July 2005 - Arco Iris, Fish Bay
December 2007 - Dreamcatcher, GCB
July 2008 - Ellison Villa, VGE
To Verjoy: I don't think in the years that I've been on this board I've ever made a personal attack on another member. [Well, maybe on Jorge and Pete, but they deserved it]. I'm usually a pretty upbeat, fun-loving guy and try to make folks smile. Folks on both sides of the spectrum gave their take, and I gave mine. I make no apology for a damned thing that I said, but I do apologize if I came across as being personally hurtful to anybody here, as that was not my intention.
To SJfromNJ, My comment regarding the Westin was made a pretty long time ago and that was the emotional, idealistic conservationist in me speaking. This is a political thread, but I love talking about STJ so much more, so I'll address your comment. I, like a lot of people, on island, and on this board, detest the profiteering and over development of STJ. You say to talk to the employees. I've talked to more then a couple of older West Indians that have expressed that the original building of the Hyatt was the beginning of the end for "their" STJ. I have an opinion, and that and 35 cents will buy you a newspaper, that the Westin and the development of Peter Bay are great. I just wish that they were somewhere other then STJ.
As far as McCain warning Frank, I plead ignorance on what you're referring to, but I seriously doubt that John McCain really had any advice that would have averted this calamity. The enemy on this issue is not solely conservatives, nor is it solely liberals, it's greed.
Something else I'd like to say in my own defense: I'm no eastern establishment, bleeding heart liberal. I have some views ranging from gun control to capital punishment to Title 9 to even tax issues that are not generally accepted by many so called liberals. I was once described [by a friend of mine in the Special Forces] as the most radically moderate person he had ever met. I wear that description as a badge of honor.
Ok, I said my piece. I'm out on the politics.
Peace & Harmony
To SJfromNJ, My comment regarding the Westin was made a pretty long time ago and that was the emotional, idealistic conservationist in me speaking. This is a political thread, but I love talking about STJ so much more, so I'll address your comment. I, like a lot of people, on island, and on this board, detest the profiteering and over development of STJ. You say to talk to the employees. I've talked to more then a couple of older West Indians that have expressed that the original building of the Hyatt was the beginning of the end for "their" STJ. I have an opinion, and that and 35 cents will buy you a newspaper, that the Westin and the development of Peter Bay are great. I just wish that they were somewhere other then STJ.
As far as McCain warning Frank, I plead ignorance on what you're referring to, but I seriously doubt that John McCain really had any advice that would have averted this calamity. The enemy on this issue is not solely conservatives, nor is it solely liberals, it's greed.
Something else I'd like to say in my own defense: I'm no eastern establishment, bleeding heart liberal. I have some views ranging from gun control to capital punishment to Title 9 to even tax issues that are not generally accepted by many so called liberals. I was once described [by a friend of mine in the Special Forces] as the most radically moderate person he had ever met. I wear that description as a badge of honor.
Ok, I said my piece. I'm out on the politics.
Peace & Harmony
When you find yourself in a hole.... quit digging.
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cypressgirl
- Posts: 2178
- Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:42 pm
- Location: houston
Being a moderate is hard work. You don't have all of the pre-cooked extreme hyperbole to hide behind. Thinking for yourself is work that too many people avoid. Unfortunately, that includes are current major party presidential candidates. I blame the long primary process for the most part - it forces the major party candidates to pander to the extremes of their parties rather than the center of gravity of the American consensus. Once the conventions are over they are stuck with the results of their sibling warfare.
We have three additional Presidential candidates on the Virginia ballot. Unfortunately they're ideologues too.
Who do I support? I'll say that there will be more than one party represented on my ballot. I vote for quality, not the label.
The good news? I'm voting early because I'll be on Honeymoon Bay on November 4.
Cheers, RickG
We have three additional Presidential candidates on the Virginia ballot. Unfortunately they're ideologues too.
Who do I support? I'll say that there will be more than one party represented on my ballot. I vote for quality, not the label.
The good news? I'm voting early because I'll be on Honeymoon Bay on November 4.
Cheers, RickG
S/V Echoes - Coral Bay - St. John, VI
I can’t BELIEVE I am actually going to post. Guys, when you get ME to make a post on a political thread, you’ve really pushed it to the limit, let me tell you. But this one got me:
Conservatives don't believe in a free press, fair elections, equal education, environmental protection, safe and affordable health care, equal rights for women, any of it. So what do conservatives believe in? Getting rich and paying no taxes. Period!
JT, you know I love you, man, and this comment doesn’t change that, but I have to say that I found that a pretty unfair generalization and it reeked a bit of “Soxfanitis.”
I am a conservative. Hell, I may as well jump out of the closet with both feet. I am a Christian Conservative. So there. None of those things in that statement describe me. I believe in free press, fair elections, equal education, environmental protection, safe and affordable health care, equal rights for women, I am not getting rich and I am taxed at approximately 40%, so I feel pretty sure I am paying my share. What I do believe in is personal accountability, responsibility, and simple, faith based values. So shoot me.
I have been as turned off by Soxfan as anyone, but I don't think he's the only one guilty of getting a little "out there." Do we really want that here? Folks, this ain’t the place for it. Seriously. This election is important. Become informed. Vote your conscience. But, for god’s sake, quit getting ugly and personal. Just because your beliefs aren’t the same as someone else’s doesn’t make you right and them wrong.
Ok, Vicki rant is over.
I still love the hell out of you, JT, you cranky old thing.
Conservatives don't believe in a free press, fair elections, equal education, environmental protection, safe and affordable health care, equal rights for women, any of it. So what do conservatives believe in? Getting rich and paying no taxes. Period!
JT, you know I love you, man, and this comment doesn’t change that, but I have to say that I found that a pretty unfair generalization and it reeked a bit of “Soxfanitis.”
I am a conservative. Hell, I may as well jump out of the closet with both feet. I am a Christian Conservative. So there. None of those things in that statement describe me. I believe in free press, fair elections, equal education, environmental protection, safe and affordable health care, equal rights for women, I am not getting rich and I am taxed at approximately 40%, so I feel pretty sure I am paying my share. What I do believe in is personal accountability, responsibility, and simple, faith based values. So shoot me.
I have been as turned off by Soxfan as anyone, but I don't think he's the only one guilty of getting a little "out there." Do we really want that here? Folks, this ain’t the place for it. Seriously. This election is important. Become informed. Vote your conscience. But, for god’s sake, quit getting ugly and personal. Just because your beliefs aren’t the same as someone else’s doesn’t make you right and them wrong.
Ok, Vicki rant is over.
I still love the hell out of you, JT, you cranky old thing.
Please don't MISQUOTE me ... my statement in its entirety was:soxfan22 wrote:Did I miss something? Is Barack Obama a "centrist"? When did THAT happen?flip-flop wrote: I would have voted Republican but if McCain had presented a centrist.
"I doubt seriously I would have voted Republican but if McCain had presented a centrist, open minded, thoughtful and rational approach to the war in Iraq, our economy, a woman's reproductive freedoms, and other issues that matter to most people, I may have had to think long and hard. "
Again there is only one party trying to turn this into a REAL America vs. some other mythical un-American America. That is what infuriates me. I am really truly quite moderate. I believe for less government as much as possible. However, the Republican party is not that party anymore. It is questionable if it has ever been.
As one who lives and works only mere miles from the Pentagon it sickens me to hear the candidates for any party inciting this pro/Real America argument. Especially considering NYC and DC were the two targets of the attacks on 9/11, implying that us city folks are un-American and pro-Terrorist is insulting and ridiculous.
Talk to people in DC and NYC about being patriotic. Talk to those of us who couldn't get in touch with our husbands on that horrific day or those who couldn't get to their children fast enough, or who sat on the highway watching the smoke rise from the pentagon not knowing if their college buddy got out in one piece, or those who lost a loved one.
If McCain had argued about issues instead of launching ridiculous personal attacks NOT just at Barack Obama but creating this class warfare kind of mentality, he would not be in the position he finds himself in today. That's my only point. Would I have voted for him, no. Would millions of moderates who have concerns about Obama's experience, maybe. Fear mongering worked in 2004. I don't think it will in 2008.
Last edited by flip-flop on Mon Oct 27, 2008 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Sox - I can't believe I am doing this but since you asked me directly here are my answers.
Did I miss something? Apparently so.
Is Barack Obama a "centrist"?
Where in my post did I say anything about Obama being centrist. I didn't. However, I find McCain's approach (from the independent maverick himself) to be the most far right of any recent republican candidate. My point is that McCain has put his election at risk on his own. If he had not gone so far right he would have been in a much better position to win.
I fundamentally disagree with your statement that Obama "walks in lockstep with domestic terrorists, communists, anarchists, and he supports infanticide.” You have not been able to present one credible, unbiased source who substantiates any of these arguments. Even FOX News has refuted much of this. They are soundbites that might sound good until people start looking into the claims and find not one is credible. Liberal wasn’t divisive enough so some strategist said let’s call him a socialist. That will work! Well, at least in my case, its not.
The fundamental problem McCain is having is he is running as the real deal, the authentic candidate and time and time again he is exposed for making decisions that are politically motivated or changing directions because the polls show him he needs to. In 2000 he believed that Roe v. Wade should not be overturned in 2008 he does.
I completely respect someone who fundamentally disagrees with me on reproductive freedom issues because it is consistent with their personal, deeply held religious beliefs. What I can't wrap my head around is the person who changes their position as a political tactic.
I am not some leftie socialist, I am actually quite moderate.
What would you say about McCain or Palin if they launched their first political campaigns in the home of Timothy McVeigh? No.
Or, someone who bombed an abortion clinic? No.
Worse yet, lets say that person has admitted to the fine work they did, and 40 years later said "I only wish we had bombed more abortion clinics"? No.
Your questions don't make me uncomfortable at all. Question my intellectual honesty all you want, but I am confident and firm in my beliefs. One being that you have the right to think and say whatever you want, but you do not have the right to legislate religious opinions.
Judging from the public and private feedback I have received, I think my intellectual honesty can speak for itself. I actually very much like that the internet gives the semblance of anonymity because I find people's true feelings and beliefs come out more clearly. I am of the old give them enough rope strategy.
Did I miss something? Apparently so.
Is Barack Obama a "centrist"?
Where in my post did I say anything about Obama being centrist. I didn't. However, I find McCain's approach (from the independent maverick himself) to be the most far right of any recent republican candidate. My point is that McCain has put his election at risk on his own. If he had not gone so far right he would have been in a much better position to win.
I fundamentally disagree with your statement that Obama "walks in lockstep with domestic terrorists, communists, anarchists, and he supports infanticide.” You have not been able to present one credible, unbiased source who substantiates any of these arguments. Even FOX News has refuted much of this. They are soundbites that might sound good until people start looking into the claims and find not one is credible. Liberal wasn’t divisive enough so some strategist said let’s call him a socialist. That will work! Well, at least in my case, its not.
The fundamental problem McCain is having is he is running as the real deal, the authentic candidate and time and time again he is exposed for making decisions that are politically motivated or changing directions because the polls show him he needs to. In 2000 he believed that Roe v. Wade should not be overturned in 2008 he does.
I completely respect someone who fundamentally disagrees with me on reproductive freedom issues because it is consistent with their personal, deeply held religious beliefs. What I can't wrap my head around is the person who changes their position as a political tactic.
I am not some leftie socialist, I am actually quite moderate.
What would you say about McCain or Palin if they launched their first political campaigns in the home of Timothy McVeigh? No.
Or, someone who bombed an abortion clinic? No.
Worse yet, lets say that person has admitted to the fine work they did, and 40 years later said "I only wish we had bombed more abortion clinics"? No.
Your questions don't make me uncomfortable at all. Question my intellectual honesty all you want, but I am confident and firm in my beliefs. One being that you have the right to think and say whatever you want, but you do not have the right to legislate religious opinions.
Judging from the public and private feedback I have received, I think my intellectual honesty can speak for itself. I actually very much like that the internet gives the semblance of anonymity because I find people's true feelings and beliefs come out more clearly. I am of the old give them enough rope strategy.
VickiH wrote:I can’t BELIEVE I am actually going to post. Guys, when you get ME to make a post on a political thread, you’ve really pushed it to the limit, let me tell you. But this one got me:
Ok. I take back my statement not to apologize for anything that I said. I'm sorry. I used poor judgement by not being more specific. I love a lot of conservative people and respect their ideology, even if I don't always agree with it. Vicki, you're on that list that I love! My mistake was not being more specific with the target of my tirade, meaning the extreme, narrow minded, right wingers that are soul mates of the Rush Limbaughs and Liddy's of this country. I really detest the extremists on both ends of the spectrum.Conservatives don't believe in a free press, fair elections, equal education, environmental protection, safe and affordable health care, equal rights for women, any of it. So what do conservatives believe in? Getting rich and paying no taxes. Period!
VickieH said:
JT, you know I love you, man, and this comment doesn’t change that, but I have to say that I found that a pretty unfair generalization and it reeked a bit of “Soxfanitis.”
By the way, Cypressgirl, saying "God Bless" wouldn't insult me, but I doubt if Jesus was here making his case today that he'd be either a Democrat or a Republican.
When you find yourself in a hole.... quit digging.
JT: I really detest the extremists on both ends of the spectrum.
Amen, Brother JT.
I think this says it best. Rev. Nathan Baxter, Dean of Washington National Cathedral, during a Memorial Service at the National Cathedral on September 14, 2001
“Today, we gather to be reassured that God hears the lamenting and bitter weeping of Mother America because so many of her children are no more. Let us now seek that assurance in prayer for the healing of our grief stricken hearts, for the souls and sacred memory of those who have been lost. Let us also pray for divine wisdom as our leaders consider the necessary actions for national security, wisdom of the grace of God that as we act, we not become the evil we deplore.”
Amen, Brother JT.
I think this says it best. Rev. Nathan Baxter, Dean of Washington National Cathedral, during a Memorial Service at the National Cathedral on September 14, 2001
“Today, we gather to be reassured that God hears the lamenting and bitter weeping of Mother America because so many of her children are no more. Let us now seek that assurance in prayer for the healing of our grief stricken hearts, for the souls and sacred memory of those who have been lost. Let us also pray for divine wisdom as our leaders consider the necessary actions for national security, wisdom of the grace of God that as we act, we not become the evil we deplore.”
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California Girl
I wasn't going to post on this thread, but here I go.
I have read every single post on this thread and nearly everyone is guilty of something when it comes to either taking a comment out of context, misquoting something, ragging on another poster, or even mis-spelling a big hard word. When it comes to name-calling, just because the candidates do it, doesn't mean it's ok for you to do it. While some of this thread is civil and insightful, a lot of it is just whining and arguing and no one person is going to ever instill their views on the other.
Jorge, damn you, why did you start this you rabble rouser you!
I have read every single post on this thread and nearly everyone is guilty of something when it comes to either taking a comment out of context, misquoting something, ragging on another poster, or even mis-spelling a big hard word. When it comes to name-calling, just because the candidates do it, doesn't mean it's ok for you to do it. While some of this thread is civil and insightful, a lot of it is just whining and arguing and no one person is going to ever instill their views on the other.
Jorge, damn you, why did you start this you rabble rouser you!
You can't believe you're actually going to enter into discussion with me? How condescending.flip-flop wrote:Sox - I can't believe I am doing this but since you asked me directly here are my answers.
What would you say about McCain or Palin if they launched their first political campaigns in the home of Timothy McVeigh? No.
Or, someone who bombed an abortion clinic? No.
Worse yet, lets say that person has admitted to the fine work they did, and 40 years later said "I only wish we had bombed more abortion clinics"? No.
I'm not sure why you answered the questions with "no". It is a FACT that Ayers hosted one of Obama's first fundraisers in his living room. It is also a FACT that that POS bombed things. It is also a FACT that that POS said he doesn't regret what he did.
As for redefining the word "socialist" to fit Obama (because liberal wasn't bad enough). Maybe not. Maybe it is Obama's own words that branded him a radical socialist. Take a look at this video (I know you won't):
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July 2003 - Honeymoon at The Westin
July 2004 - Glenmar, Gifft Hill
July 2005 - Arco Iris, Fish Bay
December 2007 - Dreamcatcher, GCB
July 2008 - Ellison Villa, VGE
July 2004 - Glenmar, Gifft Hill
July 2005 - Arco Iris, Fish Bay
December 2007 - Dreamcatcher, GCB
July 2008 - Ellison Villa, VGE