USVI-On-Line

For those of you who are not "Trekkies" like me, that is the IDIC symbol. IDIC stands for "Infinite Diversity in Infinite Combinations."

You know... Gene Roddenberry was really on to something!

"What the cynics fail to understand is that the ground has shifted beneath them--that the stale political arguments that have consumed us for so long no longer apply........and because we have tasted the bitter swill of civil war and segregation, and emerged from that dark chapter stronger and more united, we cannot help but believe that the old hatreds shall someday pass; that the lines of tribe shall soon dissvolve; that as the world grows smaller, our common humanity shall reveal itself; and that America must play its role in ushering in a new era of peace."

...Borack Obama's inaugrural adress.

Peace...

MrB wrote: The time of America and a united planet are now. Get on the bandwagon. My hand is out to catch you. Come with us. Glorify in it.

Fire up The Mamas and the Papas, spark up a fattie, and jump on the Peace Train...The age of aquarius lives!!!

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An interesting read from Tuesday's Wall Street Journal about criticism of the new president...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123249791178500439.html

I know I'm in the vast minority on this forum, and I have no interest in getting in a pi**ing match with any of you, but I do find it insulting as an American, that the first thing Pres. Obama does in office is to start the process to free a bunch of terrorists.

cypressgirl wrote:I know I'm in the vast minority on this forum, and I have no interest in getting in a pi**ing match with any of you, but I do find it insulting as an American, that the first thing Pres. Obama does in office is to start the process to free a bunch of terrorists.

My understanding is that the detainees will be transferred, not set free. From CNN: The decision to close the detention facility received immediate backing from Obama's general election opponent, Arizona GOP Sen. John McCain.

McCain, in a joint statement released with South Carolina GOP Sen. Lindsey Graham, said he supported Obama's decision to "reaffirm America's adherence to the Geneva Conventions, and begin a process that will, we hope, lead to the resolution of all cases of Guantanamo detainees."

Do you know where there will be transferred? I was under the impression that these prisoners could never be convicted in a court of law. They weren't exactly read their rights. I also heard on the news, and that does not mean it's correct, that these terrorists have no constitutional rights. I'm just concerned they will eventually be back to doing what they were born to do...........killing Americans.

This is a national security issue. I would hate to think that our new president would do this for political reason.

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That and there are also over 60 detainees who have not been released because there is no where for them to go. They can't come to the US and they can't go home. This morning NPR had a piece saying that Switzerland, Poland and Portugal (?) were in talks to take them.

The major issue with Gitmo and secret detention centers is Habeas Corpus. Technically they do not have constitutional rights (I think that's the whole point of not bringing them to the US and trying them), but how we treat them is a reflection of our nation's core values. If we don't uphold them we have no credibility on the world stage.

What if US citizens were held with no charges for years on end with not only no chance of release but no chance to know the charges against them or defend themselves against those charges?

The issue isn't are they guilty or not, but the process by which they are tried (or not in this case).

"This is following through not just on a commitment I made during the campaign but an understanding that dates back to our Founding Fathers, that we are willing to observe core standards of conduct — not just when it's easy but also when it's hard," the president said.

I think that McCain, having been a prisoner of war, supports the decision speaks volumes.

Also do not want to invite opinions pro and con, so just consider this a FAQ on this Executive Order based on what little I can ascertain about it.

There are about 240-245 detainees left from the 800 or so that were apprehended, and about 60 of those detainees remaining had already been cleared for release under the Bush administration. However, many come from countries with poor human rights records and so the Obama administration would need to find third countries willing to accept them.

Several European nations, including Portugal, France, Ireland, Sweden and Germany, have said they recognize the need to take some who cannot return to their home countries because of the risk of mistreatment. The Executive Order directs the Secretary of State to seek international cooperation aimed at achieving the transfers of detainees to other countries.

The Executive Order also establishes a review process to determine where to transfer the remaining detainees for trial (3 military prisons - Fort Leavenworth in Kansas, Camp Pendleton in California, and Charleston in South Carolina – are under consideration).

The Order also starts in motion to address the thorny issue of HOW to prosecute them: in federal court; in a military courts martial; using a revised system of the military commissions that were used under the Bush administration; or a hybrid system of civilian courts and courts martial.

So, its NOT like the other 185 or so bad guys left will be released or will not be tried. Seems like they are attempting to do it in a more transparent fashion and more in line with our own constitution and international law.

Flip - also agree that McCain's opinion has to respected on this.

Indeed, SJ, one year seems optimistic.

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Forgive me if I'm wrong (and I have no doubt someone will correct me)...But weren't most of these guys people fighting on the battlefield NOT wearing any State/Nation military uniform? If that is the case, then I don't believe the Geneva Convention applies to them.

As an aside...A story -

This morning, Laura Ingraham had on a woman who's husband was killed in the USS Cole Bombing. She mentioned that Bill Clinton always promised them "justice"...The man who was the mastermind of that attack was due to be tried at the end of January for his horiffic act of terorrism...They were all (the victims families) anticipating his trial...Well, now she is heartbroken with the moretorium now placed on all military tribiunals at Gitmo.

story: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/01 ... es-trials/

cypressgirl wrote:

This is a national security issue. I would hate to think that our new president would do this for political reason.

President Obama has some enormous debts coming due to be paid to the order of the American Hard Left.

The fact that he has passed an executive order to close all CIA "Black Sites" to me is more undermining of our security than Gitmo. The Gitmo people are going to have to go somewhere, but these sites were crucial to our gathering of intelligence. Here's a blurb from a site some of you know well, none other than The Huffington Post:

President Obama on Thursday will order the closure of so-called black sites, where CIA and European security services have interrogated terrorist suspects, under executive orders dismantling much of the Bush admistration's architecture for the war on terror, according to four individuals familiar with a draft executive order.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/2 ... 59950.html