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Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:22 am
by mit43
The articles seem to imply that the residents of STT have stepped up and flooded the authorities with calls giving them information about the shooter. WELL DONE!!!
This morning our local paper had 2 stories about drive by shootings and a man was stabbed by his daughter. There is violence everywhere, even in quiet coastal NC.
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:30 am
by XOXO
But...in long-awaited conclusion...if the residents of the islands are getting fed up with things, that may be a very good sign. Those of us who jet in for a week or 2 at a time can't change the way their system works...only they can.
That is what I was trying to say. And really, that is what matters most, not whether you or I feel safe when we go on vacation. Really, it is mutual, they want us to feel safe so we spend our dollars there.
Safety: Where can you go and not encounter crime?
Pip, this is the kind of attitude that makes me crazy. This is the attitude that I see when I visit the Jamaica and Mexico forums. I am not sure if I can explain why rationalizing crime bothers me but it does.
Hell...I don't go to certain parts of Raleigh for that reason and that's 5 miles from my house...to say nothing of going to St. Somewhere.
But when you are at home, you know where these areas are. Away from home, you don't. So, I guess that is why I try to find places with decreased crime rates. Especially, violent crime. I don't want my money or camera stolen from a villa---but if that is the only type of crime at a destination I had to worry about I would just take my chances and precautions----but if a destination shows signs of higher violent crimes then I am just not interested in going.
That said,
I will still go to ST. JOHN. I have been talking myself out of it for the last couple of years but St. John is always on my short list.
xoxo
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:41 am
by pipanale
I didn't mean to "rationalize crime". I'm trying to say: Where can you go if you don't want to encounter crime and be "guaranteed" safety?
That place doesn't exist, as far as I know.
Having moved from the boondocks of NJ to an urban environment, I've learned a lot in the past 5 years about crime and how to avoid it.
I personally can not make that guy over there obey the law...I can stay away from him and his pals and try to work with law enforcement to stop him...things I do on a daily basis.
But, I'm not going to lock myself in my basement with a BB Gun and a year's supply of canned goods because I know "he" is out there.
"He" is not stopping me from boarding a plane in a little over a week. I'm just gonna be sure to keep away from "him".
Make sense?
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 10:55 am
by XOXO
Of course, that makes sense.
For me, it is about insisting that the leaders at these destinations bring about change and make it safer for their citizens. It doesn't sound like law enforcement has been doing their job in St. Thomas.
I don't believe we should have to be on the watch for "him" or "his pals" or "shady areas" until law enforcement is doing their job. Once it looks like they are doing everything they can I will go and keep my eyes open.
The articles seem to imply that the residents of STT have stepped up and flooded the authorities with calls giving them information about the shooter. WELL DONE!!!
These are the kinds of signs I am looking for.
That makes a lot more sense to me.
xoxo
Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 7:01 pm
by sherban
That is really tragic, I hate it when kids get hurt.
We spent a week in St Thomas this year and I never felt unsafe but I'm one of those guys who believe if you don't mess with people they won't mess with you.
The island-drug connection is somwhat unique since the islands are one of the smuggling routes from producer countries to the US and Europe. I feel the problem is deepened by the lack of good paying jobs and challenging educational systems. This is a really tough problem. As long as there is crazy money, there will be guns and violence...end of story.
To be honest I don't believe the drug problem will ever go away...it has been around for hundreds of years...sometimes I feel that decriminalization is the only way to take the money from the business..but there is no good answer...it's tough.
Follow the big money...that's where the answers lie.
I'm really sorry this little girl was lost...truly sad.
Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:28 am
by Boston Mike
pipanale wrote:I have a few rambling opinions here:
How many of us have read Don't Stop The Carnival? Probably a lot. it's funny how the somewhat-sensationalized portrayal of the Kinjan cops is eerily similar to what you see on little islands (or for that matter small communities)
Safety: Where can you go and not encounter crime? How many of the islands (keeping it topical) don't have a lot of people who are severely economically depressed and have resorted to "bad behavior" as a way to make ends meet? I guess if you went to a gated/guarded All-Inclusive, the odds are that you'd run into fewer locals. That's an option.
But...where does anyone think they can go on an island vacation and not stand out like a sore thumb and be a possible target for someone looking for a quick score of cash/jewelry/gadgets? Hell...I don't go to certain parts of Raleigh for that reason and that's 5 miles from my house...to say nothing of going to St. Somewhere.
What happened (and the manner in which it happened) is horrible. In my opinion, as a lot of people say, you need to be cautious no matter where you go. If a beach/bar/street looks sketchy or has a reputation; move on. There are other places to go. I'm not implying that anyone "asked for this". That's not my point. (You know what comes next).
But, saying "I'm never going to the USVI again because it's not safe", to me, is short-sighted. Where are you going to go that's safe?
But...in long-awaited conclusion...if the residents of the islands are getting fed up with things, that may be a very good sign. Those of us who jet in for a week or 2 at a time can't change the way their system works...only they can.
And...there goes the thread down the political toilet.
This sums it up. Nicely put pip.
Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 10:26 pm
by Berlingirl
Had the pleasure to spend this afternoon with friends...one who is a native STT islander just moved to the mainland in the last month and another who was a mainlander who moved to the islands for 10 plus years and still maintains a residence there about this latest violence in the Coki point area.
Consenus...It is a police problem. Period. It is well known...police corruption is a rampant onisland problem. They bust the drug dealers.. they do not turn in the drugs...they sell them themselves. Many police officals are building mansions...ummm...police job...leads to a big house and this is just the end of the road...the beginning is at the top with the government officals...the entire government is corrupted. It starts at the top and winds it way down to the very bottom...It's been going on for years...welfare and the idea of I got mines is all over the place...as it is ingrained in most of all the 50 states in the US and the USVI and Puerto Rico. People who are given a free pass and no incentive to work...will not.
PERIOD.
Also..just a little diddy my friends threw in today was...how tired they are of shopping in the USVI...Paying $150 or 200 for groceries...to be ignored..no thank yous...No, did you find everything you needed??? Just the general feeling of laziness and entitlement..this is coming straight from my friends...NOT me...Oh yeah, these are working locals...BTW...
Big bone they are chewing down in the USVI...
Posted: Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:35 pm
by XOXO
Berlingirl, that is the vibe I have been getting (mostly from this forum). It is too bad. There are so many caribbean places that aren't particularly safe. I don't understand the attitude that the tourists sometimes get. I am surpised that your friends, who are locals, get the same attitude. I assumed that it was directed towards tourists.
On another subject, I think some effort has been made in Mexico and it seems to be getting worse. Mexican President Felipe Calderon seems to need some assistance. Shouldn't we be helping? Isn't that in our best interest?
What are the answers? I don't think legalizing drugs will help. Welfare was mentioned . . . the whole welfare system could us a makeover to prevent abuse, but will that have a positive affect on preventing drug gangs? Maybe more oversight to watch over law enforcement and weed out corruption (did I just ask for government oversight, omg!)
xoxo
Thanks for your insights Berlingirl.
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 8:37 pm
by XOXO
Ok, I am giving up. I am looking for a Christmas destination and I am about ready to give up on the Caribbean. Every destination seems to be having problems with escalating violent crime. It isn't just crime that bothers me but the reports about lack of investigation and prosecution. I don't know if it is corruption or lack of resources.
I was just looking at Turks and Caicos and there was a robbery at the beach, involving a gun, in broad daylight. Of course, there were people posting that crime happens everywhere. . . Be aware . . . Leave valuables in the safe . . . Etc. Right. We haven't heard that before.
If I felt the police were doing their job, investigating, prosecuting, and preventing crime I would go and enjoy the Caribbean. But, my research is showing that is not the case. If criminals aren't being prosecuted the problem will be compounded.
I am not trying to insight or be a fear mongler I am just frustrated.
Xoxo
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 9:38 pm
by sherban
It is nearly impossible to get valid statistics to support an informed decision...
That said, my feeling is that the some of the safest are Aruba, STJ, BVIs, Bahamas out islands, Nevis, Kitts.
Most are safer than the majority of big US Cities.
There'a also Hawaii and the Pacific Islands...
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:04 pm
by XOXO
Thank you so much Sherban! I will start researching them.
I love Hawaii but I am not ready to fly that far after just being there in June.
xoxo
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:18 pm
by Exit Zero
Maybe a villa on Mustique would be worth looking into for a vacation rental if you are feeling like a Caribbean destination but want to avoid any likelihood of reality.
Posted: Sat Jul 17, 2010 10:59 pm
by XOXO
Lol, EZ, I am too poor to even know what mustique is! So, I googled it. Beautiful, gives me something new to dream about.
xoxo
Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 12:08 am
by St. John Lover
Yeah, it sounds like Aruba would be safe unless you happened to be a teenager with the first name of Natalie...
Said somewhat 'tongue in cheek' but it further evidences what the poster is concerned about--a corrupt government including a corrupt and inept criminal justice system--that does nothing to restrain crime, promote justice, nor model lawful behavior.
Having said that, I've been to many of the islands mentioned and have found them much safer than where I work. I've not only enjoyed each of them but really felt very, very safe...
Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 7:10 am
by Bigcheeze
#1 Sad story and my heart goes out to her parents...having a 14 yr old, I can't imagine how devestated I would feel.
#2 I propose this question; In today's Over hyped, over media world we live ,are we more acutely aware of all the goings on in the world with the continual media barrage of stories we never had 20 years ago.
We had a posible(said possible) child abduction take place in our safe community and it wasn't long before there's a community forum, a town meeting and 3 police officers dispensing common sense knowlege, we all knew. When it was Q and A time a question was, how many Child abductions have we had...none in over 20 years was the response, but the officer said because we are all so much more immersed with the media coverage, our sense of lack of safety has been diminished.
I have never felt unsafe in the USVI and BVIs and will continue to visit