USVI-On-Line

Loria~

I'm so glad you clarified the fruit fly research question because I didn't take it seriously.

Is curing juvenile diabetes close to becoming a reality? Do you work in that field?

I don't know anyone with this problem, but it would be very tough to deal with. Hope there are positive results soon.

verjoy wrote:Loria~

I'm so glad you clarified the fruit fly research question because I didn't take it seriously.

Is curing juvenile diabetes close to becoming a reality? Do you work in that field?

I don't know anyone with this problem, but it would be very tough to deal with. Hope there are positive results soon.

I was just using this as an example, however, I am not someone who works on diabetes, but there are VERY good people working on this --and progress is being made (albeit not fast enough for many)
there are just SO many situations like this where basic research can help furnish the answers (unfortunately some of this research is frustratingly slow....)

LuLu and Teresa - You both have very excellent points. The problem is finding the root of the problem, then the root of that problem, then the root of that....and so on and so on.

I think alot of abortions happen because the mother does not want anyone to know, and to carry the baby full term, then give the child up for adoption would be to revealing. For others maybe because they walk into a clinic and say "I want an abortion" and are herded on through without any real counseling.

I think it all goes back to upbringing, morals, values, stigma, etc.

With this all said, I think that in this day and age, it needs to be a womans right. It would never be my choice if it were simply based on convenience, but not placing it out there as option paints a horrible picture to me as well. Like LuLu pointed out, children are being abused, not taken care, and just not given any chance in life. Then it trickles down to their children sometimes, and so on, and so on. I don't think this is an issue that will ever be settled in my lifetime though. It's a heartbreaking subject, and I think the answer starts within a family. Not within government.

Teresa_Rae wrote:I completely agree but that doesn’t mean that abortion is the answer. There are thousands of couples on adoption waiting lists in this country…for the 97+ percent of abortions that are simply birth control, why can’t those women give their babies up for adoption instead?

There are over 1/2 a million babies and young children in foster care all over this country. Imagine the explosion in this number if abortion were illegal for women who know they are not equipped or willing to mother a child. If someone wants to adopt a child, they can. If they are willing to adopt something other than a perfect infant.

Not all kids in foster care are eligible for adoption but many are.

Once the pro-life movement starts taking care of these postnatal sacred souls, then I may start considering some of the arguments about the sanctity of all life.

flip-flop wrote:

Teresa_Rae wrote:I completely agree but that doesn’t mean that abortion is the answer. There are thousands of couples on adoption waiting lists in this country…for the 97+ percent of abortions that are simply birth control, why can’t those women give their babies up for adoption instead?

There are over 1/2 a million babies and young children in foster care all over this country. Imagine the explosion in this number if abortion were illegal for women who know they are not equipped or willing to mother a child. If someone wants to adopt a child, they can. If they are willing to adopt something other than a perfect infant.

Not all kids in foster care are eligible for adoption but many are.

Once the pro-life movement starts taking care of these postnatal sacred souls, then I may start considering some of the arguments about the sanctity of all life.

Some of us do.

One of my cousins and his wife were foster parents for years and eventually adopted two crack babies from the same mother...one was 4 when they adopted him, and his sister was an infant when they got her. The boy was the ring bearer in my wedding.

Another cousin and his wife just adopted a crack baby a few months ago. They were infertile and couldn’t have a baby of their own.

My husband’s aunt has adopted 22 children over the years...they ranged in age from 4 to 14 when they were adopted...all 22 were unwanted by their parents. Several were black kids from inner city Detroit. A few are from Brazil, and one of the Brazilians is a paraplegic. Another one was born with two strikes against her...she was a girl born in China and she was also born blind.

Then there's my husbands parents. Even though they already had a very severely disabled daughter who will basically be an infant for her entire life, they adopted an 8 year old girl who had been born to two mentally challenged parents. Amazingly she is of normal intelligence. Her biological mother killed herself and her biological father is in jail for sexually abusing her. Now she’s a normal, well-adjusted freshman in college, and a great sister-in-law to me.

All of these people are vehemently pro-life.

My husband and I aren’t in the position to take in any kids right now, but it is certainly a possibility for the future.

SJfromNJ wrote:

pjayer wrote:


SJ wrote - "It doesn't sound like you have a good understanding of the bailout and the problems with Fanny and Freddy. Google search Barney Frank and Freddy and Fanny for a better understanding of the problem and how McCain tied to warn congress about the situation concerning the bailout in 2006."


And SJ, I’m not claiming to have a full and complete understanding of the financial crisis. But, if I wanted additional information, it wouldn’t come from a Google search that only includes the three Fs. I believe I would throw in “leveraging”, “bundling”, “CDSs”, and “due diligence” as well. I might even read a few hard copy articles written by economists and other financial experts just to spice it up a bit.

And, yes. I did know both candidates voted for the bailout and wasn’t trying to imply otherwise.

Ok fine, but you still don't acknoledge that McCain warned Barney frank in 2006 about the Freddy and Fanny crisis. Also what Fanny and Freddy did with the bundled crap the sold to Lehman and Merill and all the other investment banks out there, who is taking responsibility for that?

SJ, I don't really have the time or expertise to give an explanation about who's to blame. Even the experts can't agree about that one. But I'm pretty sure it's not one lone Democrat. I do know there were lots of people on both sides sounding the alarm long before McCain informed Frank in 2006. Some were experts hired by the Bush administration, but their conclusions were ignored.

Fannie, Freddie, Lehman Brothers, JP Morgan, AIG, and the rest were all in bed together. As I understand it, JP Morgan was the first to dream up the credit-default swap scheme in the 90s which allowed them to free up their reserves and avoid federal regulations. Then they all followed suit. You can do your own research on that, if you're so inclined.

So, this ends my posting on this thread. As bayer said last night, it is like reading War and Peace except it's more war than peace. And, I don't mean our exchanges which seem to be fairly civil so far. So I think we should quit while we're ahead.

That is great that they have made the choice to be so proactive and open to these children.

I would argue that the anti-choice movement (the official movement & lobbying arm, not individuals) would earn significantly more legitimacy if they put their resources toward taking care of children who are here already.

Let's be honest a family such as yours is rare. What they are doing is amazing and should be encouraged and supported, but it is rare. There are afterall hundreds of thousands of children waiting to be adopted.

Teresa - Please don't think I'm attacking your or demeaning anything you said, because I'm not. You just brought up a point that I often wonder about...

Teresa_Rae wrote:A few are from Brazil, and one of the Brazilians is a paraplegic. Another one was born with two strikes against her...she was a girl born in China and she was also born blind.

While I think that is most admirable and brave to adopt children that are not perfect, why do so many people feel the need to adopt children from another country when there are, as you just said, "over 1/2 a million babies and young children in foster care all over this country. "

I'm not directing this at you, Teresa, because it's not personal. But I see people like Angelina Jolie (whom I greatly respect) and others adopting children from other countries when there are already so many homeless and family-less children right here in the good old USA. Is it easier to get a child from another country? And why are there so many children in foster homes and orphanages if there are so many people aching to adopt them? It seems like everyone wants a "baby" but the older children get brushed aside.

This really is a question that I'd like to hear some answers on, and I hope I've been able to word this in a politically correct and non-inflammatory manner.

Thanks.

If you have the resources, i.e. $$ adopting from a foreign country (esp if you want a young baby) can be easier. Fewer hoops, less restrictions.

Easing the barriers to adoption in this country would be a great use of the time of those who really care about unwanted babies.

There are age restrictions (you can be too old or too young). Several people I know who adopted from Russia and China did so because their husbands were too old (over 45 I think) to adopt domestically. Note: these adoptions were in the 90s so the rules may have changed.

I have another friend who adopted from central america after several miscarriages. Basically she looked at the procedures for domestic and foreign adoptions and determined which one would be best and most efficient for them, both time wise and monetarily.

One last thing. The rights of birth mothers in the US are far more protected than those of mothers in distant and foreign lands. I think a lot of people choose to adopt abroad for fear of mothers changing their minds and the legal battles that can ensue. I don't judge anyone for their reasons for choosing on track over the other, but it is an incredibly complex issue. My hat is absolutely off to anyone who adopts a child from anywhere.

In a lot of cases it can be very difficult for children to be adopted in the United States because the courts are very hesitant to terminate parental rights and let the kids be up for adoption.

I found this online for a good summary:

American permanent placement policy is focused on the attempt for family reunification, or returning a child to the home from which they were removed. The goal is that a child will live for a short time in foster care while their biological parents straighten themselves out and are taught how to be caring and effective parents, after which time the child can safely return home. Adoption is considered in extreme circumstances, but for the most part, the act of "severing the birth parents' rights" and finding an adoptive home for a child "has never been treated as a serious policy option."


Depending on the situation, it can be less expensive and easier to get a child from overseas…I found this online:

As the legal complexity of adopting a child in the United States has become more severe, many parents and families are turning internationally to find the child they want to adopt. Many countries like Korea, China, and Russia have been doing intercountry adoptions for years and have made the process easier on foreigners. Intercountry adoptions are handled by private nonprofit adoption agencies. Overseas adoptions continue to grow and more adoption services are opening in the United States to help parents wade through the adoptive process and make it as easy as possible. Some good websites to get started on are Orphansoverseas.org, International.Adoption.com, and ChildrensHopeInt.org. All these sites offer detailed information on adopting children from different countries from around the world. In many cases international adoption is an easier process than domestic adoption..

And:

In some cases, an international adoption can be easier than regular adoption. Essentially, an international adoption is an agreement between a foreign court and an individual or a couple in the United States. In this regard, there may be fewer requirements that have to be met to be able to adopt via an international adoption than there would be with a regular adoption.

I know that in the case of my husband’s aunt and uncle, they adopted most of their 22 kids from the United States, but several were from overseas. The ones from overseas all have disabilities or health problems so their futures would have been pretty bleak in their home countries.

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SJfromNJ wrote:...if you want to adopt a US child the benefits are less due to the high legal cost of adoption.

To me that is so wrong. Companies should be encouraging taking care of our own country's unwanted children first and not penalizing people for it.