USVI-On-Line

I will also go out on a limb here and set myself up for the possibility of being misunderstood because of the one dimensional quality of internet communication. My intent here is not to attack the posting of others or to quiet their voices. I just felt that some of the previous opinions expressed were a bit judgemental of the victim, the circumstances and the justice system. I am sure that some of these comments were made by those with a better knowledge of the situation than myself.

I find it upsetting that a victim of violent crime is judged by the reporting of a single newspaper. All I know about the poor soul is that he is no longer with us and the victim of a murder and his family has lost him before his time. I read the posts here and perhaps I am confused on their intent. such as "a permanent solution to a temporary problem" (hoping I quoted that correctly) and "What looks worse to tourists is when the local police drag their feet with their "investigation"."
I don't think it is the intent of this forun to quell the possible fears of tourists by colouring events to make St John appear more tourist friendly.

I followed the investigation of a previous murder on StJ and the high profile case that it was made into. I read the comments of some who only visit the VI (such as myself) many were inflamatory to say the least. I did see where the VI police and justice system did arrest and convict those who were involved and in my estimation it was not an unreasonable time period. I am not intimate with the methods or resources of the VI justice system. Some of what I read appeared to place unreasonable expectations on the police and justice system. I felt it was perhaps the CSI effect where we all expect the police to be able to investigate, solve and convict within the time span of an hour including comercials. I can understand that all want to see these matter resolved quickly and make someone pay for this crime. I wish we could just wait for the police and the justice system do their jobs without undo influence from someone like myself who is only watching from afar. I would also hope that we can respect the family who is right now grieving the loss of a loved one.

Hmm toes--I am not sure I understand but the quotes you used in your second paragraph were mine. So, I feel I need to comment because it appears that I wasn't clear.

What I meant by a permanent solution to a temporary problem is a general statement--it is so sad that anyone gets so wrapped up in the moment and makes a rash decision that is permanent. It applies to all murder not specific to this one. I am not sure how else that could be taken.

And when I was talking about investigations--that wasn't specific to St. John. Actually, it was more specific to Aruba. That is just my own opinion. I wanted to go to Aruba before the Halloway case but now I wont. Maybe I am alone it that.

I am not looking for a CSI result from any of the crimes--again, in general, anywhere. That said, when it appears that the investigation is not well done and when there appears to be a motive to prevent results, then I do have a problem with that. Again, this isn't specific to St. John, it is general. I don't have any reason to believe that St. John will not solve this case. I am only saying that when cases aren't solved . . . .

I don't think it is the intent of this forun to quell the possible fears of tourists by colouring events to make St John appear more tourist friendly.

I agree but I am not sure how my comments brought you to this conclusion. I also don't think this forum is meant to make St. John more tourist friendly--but I do take this forums opinion very seriously and if someone on this forum tells me that St. John is safe I am likely to believe them. I trust the people here and don't believe anyone is trying to manipulate any information. I really don't.

If what you are saying is that making a murder appear to be drug related in order to convince tourists that they are not going to be targeted--I agree. I don't believe that was anyone's intent here.

I find newspapers to be one of the most reliable forms of information. If a newspaper is pointing us to a conclusion that a crime is the possible outcome of a dangerous lifestyle; then I admit that I am likely to believe that this was not a random crime but is more personal in nature. I really think that is a common conclusion but maybe I am wrong. I sure don't mean to offend. If the newspaper also reports that the victim wasn't involved with the murderer and that it was random and senseless then I will be inclined to believe that also. And to be honest, if that is the case, I would be concerned.

All in all, I don't think Gromit was trying to tell people that St. John is safe by making up something out of thin air. That is what the source reported and I think Gromit's intent and conclusions are fair based on the reporting. My hunch is that if the newspaper reports otherwise that Gromit will give an honest post about that also. I don't mean to pin words or opinions on anyone, these are just my own opinions.

I saw my words being used for a conclusion that I felt wasn't indicative of what I was trying to say so I wanted to clear it up.

I lived on St. John for 2 yrs and Bully (my man) would not let me frequent Caps.
He would go over occasionally but Bully (who is from St John and Jost) knew the clientele well.
Saying that, I have no idea if he was just being protective or he knew something.
All I know is
1. someone was shot and is no longer here and left a family and many people that cared for him.
2. Yes, I smelled interesting things and saw interesting things when I did go to Caps with Bully. The same can be said for the Front Yard. I have no idea if the owner of Front Yard knew.
3. Do not jump on Gromit. She even posted she knows people in legal or law enforcement in St. Thomas. She probably has heard quite a bit.
4. I worked with Tradewinds while on island. They will make sure they check their facts and report on them.

Well I certainly stand by my comments regarding the VIPD

The issue here seems to have partially become what kind of place Caps is. Some people on the forum seem to fear Caps and some people patronize it. We drop by on occasion and are comfortable being there. There was a raid at Caps in which some illegal immigrants and drugs were found. That was over a year ago, but it's been suggested that it somehow may be directly linked to the murder or reveals the character of the victim. There doesn't seem to be anything at this time that would actually indicate that there's any connection. It seems that the only poster here who is actually familiar with the victim is Ronnie, who described him as "a well respected businessman with children and grandchildren." Gerald Singer described him as "well known and well-liked".

Right now all that's been disclosed is that the victim was shot and killed at his home at 8 o'clock on Monday morning, it may have been a robbery and some people were noticed in vicinity. There are no other facts. Everything else is a product of supposition and imagination. This is how rumors begin. I don't know that I knew who Mr. Ayala was. We haven't gone to Caps often enough to get to know the people there. But I do have old friends living on the island and there are people that we've met on our visits over the years. I know that if someone I knew had been murdered there, I would be outraged by a post suggesting that they were probably doing something they shouldn't have been or that it was an incident of domestic violence. I find it really disrespectful to publicly question the character of the victim when there's no clear basis for it. We all do have opinions and hopefully recognize when it's the proper time to keep them to ourselves. I don't think that trying to allay fears of newcomers is sufficient justification to cast suspicion on the character of the victim nor does it show any consideration and respect for the survivors.

Cap is a victim, no matter how you look at it. Not responsible for his own death, but by the hands of another.

I was going to PM the following to Lex but in the interest of full disclosure I'll post the following:

Lex, I have tried to just let this go but it seems that you cannot. I have always enjoyed your posts about local events and history.

Clearly you and a handful of others are taking this further than it needs to go.

Even Mr. Singer echoed exactly what I said (or tried to say) on his site-- see 3rd paragraph of this post:

http://seestjohn.com/st_john_life/life- ... ly-island/

Unless of course you are trying to make this personal. And there's no need for that. Have I harmed you personally in some way that I should know about?

Most folks on the board know me to me a straightforward, honest person and not malicious to others unnecessarily (even if I am a smartass from time to time I am never malicious or hurtful to others intentionally).

When I realized that my post could be interpreted other than what I intended I apologized. Was my apology not enough?

It was my opinion. I expressed it based upon the facts that were available both currently and in the past.

Public newspapers are a matter of official record and are admissable as evidence in courts of law and I would imagine that they would have been sued if they were committing libel in their reports.

NO ONE has provided any proof that what the Source and Tradewinds Newspapers reported recently and over the past year regarding the crime targeted at Caps as a business didn't occur -- yet you seem intent on looking for personal malice against the victim in my comments where NONE was intended.

Are you disputing that the vicitm was robbed as recently as December, 2008? Are you disputing that there was a sting in 2007 that resulted in finding drugs and illegal immigrants?

I am not saying that the victim was directly involved but his businesses were affected by these events and law enforemnt on island would be foolish not to look into that as a possible connection or motive for this horrible crime. Especially if the victim was completely innocent and caught in the crossfire (literally).

Chalk it up to posting a fast comment and not really thinking about how it could be interpreted.

Mea Culpa. Mea Culpa. Mea Culpa.

I understand your concern for rumor -- but I also have been posting to this forum for at least a year longer than you have and I've seen the track that these crime postings take.

Everyone gets out of hand and people freak out about going to the island. And quite frankly I don't think that any business owner on island can afford to lose any more business right now beacuase people will think they could get shot.

I was calling it like I saw it based upon my knowledge and experience with folks who are attorneys and practice as defense attorneys and public defenders and worked directly with law enforcement on island.

While I MAY be wrong in this case, my statement is factual. A large percentage of violent crimes committed in the USVI center around targeted drug violence or Domestic Violence-- not random attacks on any person walking down the street-- as Mr. Singer stated in his post on his blog. The same could be said of Washington DC or any other urban area.

I have no hidden motives here -- so please don't make this out to be more than it is and just let it go.

Instead of assuming that my intention was hostile, re-read my posts again INCLUDING my EARLY apology for any harm I may have UNINTENTIONALLY caused.

PLEASE LET IT GO.

Peace.

As Judge Haller said in My Cousin Vinny, "Mr. Gambini (Gromit), that is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection..."

Gina, only “permanent solution to a temporary problem” were your words. This is what I thought you meant when I read it; Mr. Ayala was a temporary problem for the community, his death was a permanent solution. Evidently that is not what you intended. I am still not sure what your intent was as I am sure that you do not know the motivations of the person who shot him.

It was Wakey who indicated “What looks worse to tourists is when the local police drag their feet with their "investigation".” The investigation was little more than 24 hours old when this was posted. For heavens sake, can the investigators have some time to sort this thing out?

It was Grommit who said “Since we have so may new people on the board I was trying to quell those fears and questions that inevitably follow.” I have not seen any fears being raised because of this incident. We may see some eyebrows raised as a result of your reporting what your attorney contacts told you about animal abuse, domestic violence and pediphilia which at this point in time are not relative to the original discussion. If fears are raised then so be it. It is what it is. I do not see the need to try to make it anything other than the tragedy it is.

Grommit, you keep repeating that you never indicated that you were saying that Mr Ayala was involved with drugs, only his establishment. I read your original post differently. "Like most crime on STJ my guess is that he was involved in something that he should not have been or it's a domestic violence issue." Perhaps I am grossly mistaken or you stated the opinion that he was involved with something nefarious.

As far as the newspaper being a reliable source of information, let me pose this question, did the paper report that Mr. Ayala was charged or convicted regarding the drugs and illegals found in his bar? Or was he guilty because of association? The other paper articles cited only show that he was a victim of burglaries. If that is a crime than there are many businesses on the island that are guilty of the same.

Yesterday at work a woman was assaulted and shot. Today I am not hearing that somehow she deserved it nor am I hearing all of her past history indicating that somehow her personal life was a contributing factor in her shooting. What I am hearing is concern for her and her family. I guess I wish that Mr. Ayala and his family would be afforded the same. Perhaps the police will find that Mr Ayala was involved in something that was not above board, but does he not deserve the benefit of doubt?

Again, I am sorry for any misconceptions I might have gotten in reading the posts in this thread. As I said before, the internet is a one dimensional form of communication and can be easily mis-interpreted. I just saw it as a bit rude to be associating the victim of murder with so many unproven insinuations especially so quickly after his death.

Also, please don't interpret this as an attempt to quiet your voices. I am not of the thought that we are all freinds and we should not discuss a matter because there are disagreements. Disagreements cannot be resolved when kept in the dark. They can only grow.

toes in the sand wrote: It was Wakey who indicated “What looks worse to tourists is when the local police drag their feet with their "investigation".” The investigation was little more than 24 hours old when this was posted. For heavens sake, can the investigators have some time to sort this thing out?

Their record speaks for itself, PLEASE!

If and when they arrest the trash that committed this heinous crime I will be the first to congratulate them.

::holds breath::

I am so sorry I posted this! I only did so if people knew him, they would know about it, that is all. It is sad what happened to him and for the people who live and work on St. John. Crime happens everywhere even in Paradise. Let's just hope his family will get justice for him and they will find peace again.

Sandy

DC, this would have been posted anyway.

Don't worry, the messenger hasnt been flogged, yet

Nah, DC, you didn't do anything wrong. I am suprised and disappointed by the forum reaction.

Gina

GinaXOXO wrote:Nah, DC, you didn't do anything wrong. I am suprised and disappointed by the forum reaction.

Gina

I will second that sentiment.

Here's a link to an article that provides some perspectives from other STJ business owners:

http://www.onepaper.com/stjohnvi/?v=d&i ... 1223613844