USVI-On-Line

From the Thomas Jefferson section:

Raised Episcopalian, Jefferson believed that the New Testament had been polluted by early Christians eager to make Christianity palatable to pagans. He believed that they had mixed the words of Jesus with the teaschings of Plato and the philosophy of the ancient Greeks. The authentic words of Jesus were still there, he assured his friend, John Adams. He determined to extract the "authentic" words of Jesus from the rubble which he believed surrounded His real words. That book, intended as a primer for the Indians on Christ’s teachings, is commonly known as the "Jefferson Bible."

Written in the front of his personal Bible, he wrote:

"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator."

In 1803, at the request of President Thomas Jefferson, the United States Congress allocated federal funds for the salary of a preacher and the construction of his church. That same year, Congress, again at Jefferson’s request, ratified a treaty with the Kaskaskia Indians. Congress recognized that most of the members of the tribe had been converted to Christianity, and Congress gave a subsidy of $100.00 a year for seven years for the support of a priest so that he could “instruct as many ... children as possible.”

On April 21, 1803, Jefferson wrote this to Dr. Benjamin Rush (also a signer of the Declaration of Independence):

“My views...are the result of a life of inquiry and reflection, and very different from the anti-Christian system imputed to me by those who know nothing of my opinions. To the corruptions of Christianity I am, indeed, opposed; but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself. I am a Christian in the only sense in which He wished any one to be; sincerely attached to his doctrines in preference to all others.”

In a letter to William Short on October 31, 1819, he wrote:

“But the greatest of all the reformers of the depraved religion of His own country, was Jesus of Nazareth.”

I would also recommend the book "God in America" by someone who I'm sure holds a special place in your heart, Newt Gingrich.

Joshie - Interesting stuff. I had heard the term but really honestly didn't remember much of the substance. Thanks for sharing.

Seems you've riled some up with that one. Funny, depending fervently our Founding Fathers as Christians but failing to as strongly defend one of their most important, fundamental gifts to us: our first amendment rights.

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

SOXFAN,

Im not from Conneticut, NYC as a matter of fact. We have two daughters in school in New Haven. Over the last few years We've gotten to know New Haven pretty well.

sailorgirl wrote:SOXFAN,

Im not from Conneticut, NYC as a matter of fact. We have two daughters in school in New Haven. Over the last few years We've gotten to know New Haven pretty well.

Nice! I'm at Yale (hosp.) a few times a week. The rest of the time I am shuttling up and down I-95 between New Haven and Greenwich. And I live by Rhode Island. New Haven is a pretty cool town with some pretty interesting people. GREAT place to people watch, especially around the Yale Univ. and Green areas.

Funny, everytime I'm in New Haven and happen to be talking to my mom on the phone, she reminds me of my gay uncle calvin (not that the orientation matters, but it was part of his identity and he was my favorite uncle) who spent a good part of his life there...she would remind me that he called it "Na-haven".

One question...Pepe's or Sally's? I'm a Sally's guy, myself. Frank Sinatra, when he was in NYC, would send his driver all the way up to New Haven to get a few pies from Sally's APizza (I only recently learned that that is pronounced "A-Beetz").

soxfan22 wrote:
I would also recommend the book "God in America" by someone who I'm sure holds a special place in your heart, Newt Gingrich.

First, I totally agree that TJ was a good Christian fellow. Which makes my point all the more. He felt strongly enough about sep. of Church and State to guarantee it for us all.

And NEWT as a commentator on religion. Seriously? I think you must be joking.

In case I missed your sarcasm...Newt?

The "contract with America" guy who Clinton schooled over the budget/govt shutdown? The Newt who had 84 ethics sanctions filed against him. The one who pled quilty and signed a statement saying, "In my name and over my signature, inaccurate, incomplete and unreliable statements were given to the committee" and paid $300,000 in sanctions. The one who admitted to an extramarital affair during the time he was so fervently going after Clinton about Lewinsky (I know the issue with Clinton was ultimately lying about it ... but still). The one who is anti same sex unions but has been divorced 3 times. That one? He is not a conservative (and there is no denying he's a conservative republican) I would be proud of if I were of that persuasion. I believe next to the word hypocrite in the dictionary there might just be a picture of Newt.

Please don't lecture on the downfall of american morality and then call Newt into play.

Newt discussing God in America. You know what, I might have to pick it up just for a laugh!

soxfan22 wrote:

sailorgirl wrote:SOXFAN,

Im not from Conneticut, NYC as a matter of fact. We have two daughters in school in New Haven. Over the last few years We've gotten to know New Haven pretty well.

Nice! I'm at Yale (hosp.) a few times a week. The rest of the time I am shuttling up and down I-95 between New Haven and Greenwich. And I live by Rhode Island. New Haven is a pretty cool town with some pretty interesting people. GREAT place to people watch, especially around the Yale Univ. and Green areas.

Funny, everytime I'm in New Haven and happen to be talking to my mom on the phone, she reminds me of my gay uncle calvin (not that the orientation matters, but it was part of his identity and he was my favorite uncle) who spent a good part of his life there...she would remind me that he called it "Na-haven".

One question...Pepe's or Sally's? I'm a Sally's guy, myself. Frank Sinatra, when he was in NYC, would send his driver all the way up to New Haven to get a few pies from Sally's APizza (I only recently learned that that is pronounced "A-Beetz").

Luckily I've only been to Yale Med once, in September a large heavy trunk got dropped on my daughter's big toe on move in day. Wasn't me who told her to wear flip flops. Big Brain and common sense are apaprently mutally exclusive traits. Well while Dad hauled the rest of the stuff I sat in the ER with her.

Pepe's/Salleys.. actualy have not tried either. Unlike Frank I don't eat Pizza made North of The Bronx... sorry. Only kidding. There are so many interesting resturants in New Haven that we tend not to do Pizza.

The First Amendment . . . the one democrats have been using every time they called Bush names . . . will you defend the First Amendment when the democrats try to instate the Fairness Doctrine? Or is it just a convenient argument that is fair when criticizing Bush but not ok when criticizing the great one??

Nancy Pelosi and John Gizzi would like to re-instate the Fairness Doctrine. Other democrats like, Durbin and Kerry are in favor also. It looks like they will not have to work too hard to persuade Obama.

Consider how the Obama campaign reacted to the Florida TV station when Biden was asked tough questions by their reporter. How dare they not get on the Obama lovefest train?? Or when Kurtz was going to be on a Chicago TV station talking about Obama's ties with Ayers. They certainly weren't citing the first amendment, were they??

Yesterday Obama warned republicans that they need to quit listening to Rush Limbaugh if they want to get along with democrats and the new administration.

You can't just listen to Rush Limbaugh and get things done.

The Fairness Doctrine is the Left’s way of saying, “We give up. We can’t compete with you conservatives on radio, and obviously you have too much influence, so we need to regulate you.

Virginia republican Eric Cantor was objecting Obama's proposal to increase benefits for low incom workers who don't owe federal taxes . . . the great unifier told him:

I won. I will trump you on that.

So, what will you say when the Obama administation tried to instate the fairness doctrine?? Will you still believe in the first amendment or will you feel differently about it when your President is in office???

Wow, I had to go look that one up.

"The Fairness Doctrine was a policy of the United States Federal Communications Commission (FCC) that required the holders of broadcast licenses both to present controversial issues of public importance and to do so in a manner that was (in the Commission's view) honest, equitable, and balanced."

Fox News is fair and balanced enough for me. I see no problem with letting people say whatever it is they want to say as long as it doesn't incite violence.

flip-flop wrote:Fox News is fair and balanced enough for me. I see no problem with letting people say whatever it is they want to say as long as it doesn't incite violence.

Do you mean that?? Obama was on O'Reilly, and they seemed to respect each other, but . . . I think talk radio and Fox News would be the first targets of the Fairness Doctrine.

Honestly, if is is passed, I will be scared.

First, I totally agree that TJ was a good Christian fellow. Which makes my point all the more. He felt strongly enough about sep. of Church and State to guarantee it for us all.

The ONLY thing that Jefferson guaranteed for us all is that there would never be a State Sponsored Religion. He did not guarantee that God would be taken out of the pledge (I understand it was added later)...No guarantee that references to God be taken off our currency...No guarantee that a Christmas Tree be taken off the lawn of the town hall (a secular symbol, at that)...etc, etc.

Our guarantee only goes so far as to say that you are free to practice any religion you so choose...Even cosmic ones. And, you do have that freedom.

And NEWT as a commentator on religion. Seriously? I think you must be joking.

In case I missed your sarcasm...Newt?

The book is actually just filled with quotes and inferences made towards God, from the beginning of our history until the current date.

Take for example, this excerpt from Newt's FDR section:

For example, in a national radio address on May 27, 1941, FDR declared a state of "unlimited national emergency" and described the "Nazi world" as one that "does not recognize any God except Hitler . . . as ruthless as the Communists in the denial of God . . . where moral standards are measured by treachery and bribery." FDR further explained that the world was heading towards a global conflict "between human slavery and human freedom -- between pagan brutality and the Christian ideal." The United States, he declared, would stand on the side of "human freedom -- which is the Christian ideal." In another radio address on October 27, 1941, FDR described the Nazi plan to "abolish all existing religions" and to replace "the cross of Christ" with the swastika and the sword. He concluded with a pledge that "We stand ready in defense of our nation and the faith of our fathers to do what God has given us the power to see as our full duty."
Similarly, on the occasion of the Allied invasion of Normandy in June 1944, FDR led the American people in prayer: [b]"Almighty God, our sons, pride of our nation, this day have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle to preserve our republic, our religion, and our civilization, and to set free a suffering humanity." [/b]Again, as with Lincoln, FDR's words reflect more than merely his own personal beliefs; they reflect the beliefs of the American people -- who were inspired by God and their (overwhelmingly) Christian faith to win the most terrible war in human history.

Again, not so much Newt's opinion. I mean, here you have FDR, a liberal standardbearer, making statements and references towards God. In fact, you could replace many of his words about God while leading a war vs. Nazi Germany with words Bush made during a war with Radical Islam. The only difference is, the political correctness and ACLU crowd wanted Bush hanged (politically) for his references towards God.

The double-standard is striking.

I personally don't watch a lot of Fox (though I did more during the election, just out of curiosity). Most of the Fox News I see is when I watch the Daily Show.

I am totally ok with you getting to keep O'Reily on the air as long as I get to keep Jon Stewart.

I am for the rights outlined in our Constitution being non-negotiable, even when I don't all of the consequences.

flip-flop wrote: I personally don't watch a lot of Fox (though I did more during the election, just out of curiosity). Most of the Fox News I see is when I watch the Daily Show.

I am totally ok with you getting to keep O'Reily on the air as long as I get to keep Jon Stewart.

I am for the rights outlined in our Constitution being non-negotiable, even when I don't all of the consequences.

Deal. I would have never in a million years believed that you watched Fox news--ever.

This thread is interesting. I feel kind of like a visitor from another planet might feel. Really amazing to learn what some folks think/believe. I'd gotten some strong impressions of some posters from previous debate threads but this is making the picture even clearer.

Anybody have any thoughts they'd like to share on same sex marriage? Capital punishment? Gun control?

I'm also curious about the belief of being judged by God when we die. Is there a verdict? Guilty or innocent? And what are the consequences? What will happen to someone who has acted in a way that God doesn't want? And what happens to those who have acted as God wants? And where does this go on?

I might need some clarification. Who is benefiting from the hard stop? Me??

No, the insurance company.

The drug I want is very inexpensive--about $8 a month. I pay for it and do not submit it to insurance.

Doesn't matter, really. There is probably a cheaper alternative (maybe clarinex?) out there, and the insurance company doesn't know that you have no plans to try to submit. They are ALWAYS about the low cost alternative.

As for submitting if you had a different insurer, that's tough to guage. It all depends on that insurer's formulary list. If you are going to switch, go online and look at their formulary. Insurance companies have to place their formulary lists online (well, not sure if they have to, but they all do).

Soxfan, I know that in the past drug companies would give Doctors incentives to prescribe their drug . . . they would give them gifts, vacations, etc. It is because of that I am a little apprehensive about why a Doctor prescribes a certain script. I don’t think they do that anymore but I can’t help but wonder if there is still a little monkey business going on.

That was true about 10 years ago. Those days are long gone. In fact, as of Jan 1 the PHRMA Guidelines for Pharmaceutical marketing and sales just became a whole lot more strict. I can no longer take physicians out to dinner...Those goofy pens and pads in your docs offices? Steal them while you can because we no longer have them.

The problem I have with it is that they threw a blanket over the entire industry. The type of sales I do is night and day from the 10 reps you see walking into your GP's offices. I am in specialty biotech sales (and I sound like such a pompous annoying ass right now)...Our physicians contract with us to buy the product, administer the injection to the patient, and then bill Medicare Part B for reimbursement (Buy and Bill). So, it's a lot more account management than just flipping pills and stocking sample closets (in-fact, I don't carry samples as my product is a biologic that needs to be refrigerated, and costs $135.00/dose, given QW).

In specialty sales, there is business to be discussed. And not just business as it pertains to my product...I do a lot of assisting physicians on how to grow and differentiate their practice. So there is a business relationship there that is not there in primary care sales - where docs just shoo peeps away.

So long story short...No more games, golf, not even dinners anymore, which again for my type of sales is ridiculous.

BTW...I have been searching for a doc for two years who would be in favor of a universal healthcare program. No dice. It would ruin a profession (medicine) well beyond the extent to which it has already been ruined by Teddy Kennedy's brainchild, aka "Managed Care". Yes, it was Teddy who was solely responsible for the HMO Act of 1973.

You know, most doctors today are steering their children towards engineering, and away from medicine. That is sad. Although, God do we need some engineers!!!

Lex wrote:Anybody have any thoughts they'd like to share on same sex marriage? Capital punishment? Gun control?

Same Sex - whatever on that one. My conservative ideals are really not born out of religion. I have never read the bible (except for bits and pieces here and ther)...my mom tried to send me to Sunday School as a kid...My cousin ate my cookie and I got pissed and never went back...I don't go to church. But, I do happen to think this country was founded on christian principles, and if you read the writings of our founders, that much is very clear.

My son and daughter, however, will be raised in a Christian home. It is important to believe in something larger than oneself, especially in bad times. And there will be bad times. And no, Obama doesn't suffice.

My father in law is a born again christian, and enjoys "spreading the word". He and I get along great, but when we do butt heads it is on the gay issue and it's role in the Bible. I happen to think you are either born gay or straight, it is not a learned behavior. And he is never able to tell me why, if I were to look at a man naked for hours on end, I would not get aroused. But a woman? Well, now we have something.

I also had a gay uncle that I loved a lot who passed in 1989 from an aortic aneuyerism (we have erlos-danlos type IV in our family)...Anyway, I refuse to believe this man, who was one of the most gentle men I ever knew (next to my own dad), is not in heaven because of his persuasion.

I do however find it abhorrent that that school teacher brought that class to a gay wedding in san francisco last year. what? we couldn't find a heterosexual union somewhere? Only in SF (and I love the place, but cmon).

Capital Punishment? All for it.

Gun Control? No need for it. The reason we have the second ammendment is to protect the citizens from the government. You know by now how I feel about government. And bad people (not talking about government) will ALWAYS find a way to put a cap in yo ass.