USVI-On-Line

I think what we're all really addressing here is something called Proxemics in US culture.

The elevator analogy applies I think better in this situation. There's and interesting Q & A on the "Rules of Personal Space in the US on an ESL site that helps foreign bron non-english speaking folks learn to adapt to the unwritten and unspoken "rules" of elevator etiquette.

Kinda interesting...

http://www.everythingesl.net/inservices ... evator.php

Take the Elevator!
Imagine that you are in an elevator in a hotel in the United States. All of the other occupants are unknown to you. Read and answer the questions and discuss them in your groups.

What are the rules are for standing in the elevator? Where do people stand when there are only two or three people? What happens when a fourth person enters the elevator.
How would you feel if there were two people on the elevator and a third person entered and stood right next to you?
What happens when the elevator becomes more crowded and there are now four or more people?
How close will people stand? What is allowed to "touch?"
What do people look at in a crowded elevator?
When is it permissible to talk to the other people?
Responses to "Take the Elevator!"
Elevator behavior in the United States is very rigid. Compare your responses with those below.

1. If there are only two or three people on an elevator, each person usually leans against the walls. If a fourth person boards the elevator, the four corners are normally occupied.

2. This would be a breach of our personal “space.” We would feel very uncomfortable and move or get off the elevator at the next stop.

3. When there are more than four people on an elevator, the occupants begin to follow a complex set of rules for behavior. Everyone turns to face the door. Hands, purses, and briefcases hang down in front of the body. People usually scrunch up, rounding their shoulders, so that they take up as little space as possible.

4. People don’t touch each other in any way unless the elevator becomes very crowded, and then they only touch at the shoulders or upper arms. If you see an overcrowded elevator, you will probably choose to wait for the next one.

5. Everyone usually looks at the floor indicator located above the door.

6. It is unusual for people (who are strangers) to speak to each other in an elevator unless they are sharing some kind of similar experience. (Such as a conference) People who do know each other will usually speak softly. When a group of people enter the elevator and do not follow these rules, other occupants usually feel very uncomfortable.

If you think this behavior is exaggerated, the next time you are on an elevator, don’t face the door. Turn around and face toward the other occupants. See what their reaction is. If you really want to upset everyone, give them a big grin.



I'm sort a Anthropology geek at heart-- here's the Wiki def of Proxemics: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxemics

OK this reminds me of 2 things: The old George Carlin jokes about farting in elevators (I'll leave those to your imagination) and a Candid Camera episode where they had bunch of CC people in the elevator, the unsuspecting person gets on, and the CC people turn completely around.
Well, dont you know it, when the elevator opens on another floor, the unsuspecting person has also turned around to face the back of the elevator and when the doors open looks kind of bewildered. I dont recall what other hijinks they might have done with this. Probably on youtube somewhere.

this hits a nerve. big time.

it is to the point we won't go to Hawksnest ever again I don't think. even if you get a good spot, someone will sit in front of you.

Just go in Sept and you get the beaches to your self. I just talk loud how rude people are and most get the hint

Hmmm, I just speak up and say "Excuse me, it's a big beach and there's a really nice spot over there." I had a group of 8 with an infant try to crowd into a small shady spot on Honeymoon with us. I asked them to leave. They did.

Cheers, RickG

Yeah well, Rick, if you had bubbies you'd be using them...

Rarely have I found that a direct conforntation is successful. Whenever I have tried that approach (and very nicely I might add) I get a nasty response along the lines of "F off" or "Is this your beach?" or that same kind of general nonsense.

Try to honk at someone who's still sitting at the light when it has been green for 5 minutes, lately?

They get annoyed as if you're the jerk for bothering to bring it to their attention.

Rarely does anyone make the assumption these days that they might have screwed up and apologize for it. It's always the OTHER persons problem.

Sad but true.

RickG wrote:Hmmm, I just speak up and say "Excuse me, it's a big beach and there's a really nice spot over there." I had a group of 8 with an infant try to crowd into a small shady spot on Honeymoon with us. I asked them to leave. They did.

Cheers, RickG

And I will never forgive you, Rick!

My baby needs shade!!!

We travel over the holidays by necessity (school and business schedules) so we see more crowds than the off season, I would guess.

I'm not thrilled when people sit right near me, either (especially if I have to smell their smoke, hear their cussing, or have a view of body parts that don't really deserve to see the light of day.)

But on the other hand we have struck up some nice conversations with other travelers. Our last day on STJ my daughter met a girl her age (after spending 10 days with her brother and 2 other boys.) They met because the other girl's family sat right near us on the beach. They hung out all day talking and swimming, and still email each other on occassion. So, there is an upside!

I haven't really had this problem traveling in the fall on St. John. Score one more point for the off-season.

And the only other beaches I've been to in the last few years are South Florida, and really, you're lucky if you manage to find a spot big enough for your neat sheet down there!

Lots of interesting ways to deal with this issue, folks-bravo to you all!
Usually folks in our party are drinkers & smokers, so not much bothers us. We're not the usual "Spring Breaker" types, though. We're pretty low key, but definately have our fun,laughs,and occasional "wardrobe malfunctions", if you know what I mean...
We always clean up after ourselves, and tend to actually try not to sit near families with small children, as well as non-smokers.
They don't want to hear cussing, smell cigarettes, and are looking forward to enjoying what they paid for.
We've been chided & scolded for cig smoke by people who arrive well after we do, and if you ask me, that's on them.
Sitting on top of another group is pretty rediculous, too if you ask me.
It's usually easier to "feel out" who's socially engaging, and who wants to be left alone,-hell, we're all in this together, no?
True Story-
Back in '01 my best friend,myself, and our two ladies were on the far end of a surprisingly empty Francis Bay. The whole place to ourselves! Yahoo!
Our gals headed in for a snorkel, leaving Bob & I sitting alone, drinking & smoking, when we saw 2 fully dressed college aged girls approaching from the parking lot.
We looked at eachother, shrugged and "checked out" where they were headed as they slowly moved closer. They walked right in front of us, we exchanged "Good Mornings'", and they set up camp to our right @ 10 feet away.
They then proceeded to hold up a beach towel for one another that blocked off any view of them stripping naked as they changed into their bikinis one at a time.Thing is, they blocked the view FROM THE WATER where our unknowing girlfriends were swimming around, oblivious to the obvious show that these two strangers chose to give Bob & I. We looked at eachother, and said almost simultaneously,"I LOVE THIS F*&*#$! PLACE!!!".
We then laughed, finished our beers, and joined our ladies in the water so's not to get ourselves into any trouble.
The two lovely strangers left their stuff where they changed, and lazily took a walk on the beach.
Bob & I talk about it all the time.
Anyway, it really happened, and was one time I honestly didn't mind being a little crowded in paradise...
Anyway, "feel out" the folks surrounding you, and act as appropriately as possible. Those two hotties sure did!!!
Just my 2 cents-
Smiles-
MJ

Jim, funny story. I can see you and friend on the beach watching that incident.

As a smoker, I have to say, if you don't pick up your butts, then I will. I always take a bag with me to pick up any trash on any beach every time we go. It's just the right thing to do.

Our strategy has always been to hit the beach early....have nearly the whole beach to ourselves for a few hours.....then head back to the villa once it gets crowded.

One day of our recent trip, though, we set up one morning on Trunk and lo and behold a big boisterous group of counselors and little kids from a local summer camp came and set up right next to us. Maybe most people would have moved, but we stayed put and really enjoyed watching them play, laugh, and have a blast in the water that morning.

Connie wrote:Jim, funny story. I can see you and friend on the beach watching that incident.

As a smoker, I have to say, if you don't pick up your butts, then I will. I always take a bag with me to pick up any trash on any beach every time we go. It's just the right thing to do.

Yes, it was not a difficult thing to endure. Weird though.
I'm with you also as far as the picking up the butts thing is concerned.
The disregard of proper litter ettiquette (sp?) brings me down, man.
It sucks when you finally have the oppurtunity to relax your shoulders, enjoy the glory, and then some ignorant party takes advantage of it all, and acts like they own the world that we all walk upon.
Baby steps!
Much love to you & Hubby-
Smiles
J & A

Ours is simple and easy, we find a tree area where we can hang our stuff away from people put our gear on and hit the water for our snorkel. We don't care who sets up near our stuff as long as we can freely get to it when we get out of the water, at which point we dry off, get our gear and head out

Gromit, that was funny! I'd have done the same thing! Liked the elevator tutorial as well, and you know, people who know each other and ride the same elevator together daily follow the same etiquette, which is interesting, I think.
We are very protective of our personal space, in the US. My husband and I watched (and listened) to two truck drivers having a conversation from their respective tables, late one night at a truck stop. I kept wishing one of them would just go sit at the other's table, but no.... from 20 feet away, they just talked and talked....